Santander free forever bank account changes

noitsnotme

MellowJello said:

headsman said:

Section62 said:

As for the sums involved, I don't think someone running a small business would necessarily expect to stop at state pension age - particularly if they have employees and/or family members who help run the business.  There's no reason to think "forever" means 'until reaching age 65'.  However, the uncertainty about how long someone might continue to need their free business account could be a weakness in any 'small claims' for a specific amount.

The business is the relevant entity for this discussion, not the person owning / running it.  It has the legal status of an individual on its own and there's no retirement age for a business and the ownership can change.

if any group 'small claims' is filed then I would want to be part of this.

Any decent size group claim is likely to very quickly exceed the £10000 limit for the small claims track.  Over that and you're starting to get in the territory of higher legal costs and the risk of having to pay the costs of the other party if you lose.

singhini

MellowJello said:

headsman said:

Section62 said:

As for the sums involved, I don't think someone running a small business would necessarily expect to stop at state pension age - particularly if they have employees and/or family members who help run the business.  There's no reason to think "forever" means 'until reaching age 65'.  However, the uncertainty about how long someone might continue to need their free business account could be a weakness in any 'small claims' for a specific amount.

The business is the relevant entity for this discussion, not the person owning / running it.  It has the legal status of an individual on its own and there's no retirement age for a business and the ownership can change.

Hi, I agree with you. No reason to assume that the 'free for life' promise should end at 65 years. That would be ageist. I was one of the first to take out the 'free for life' account with Abbey National, when it was first introduced over 20 years ago. I still have this account, am considerably older than 65 years and use the account for my various self employed earnings. If Santander start charging then I will have to leave, but I will also cancel the credit card and other accounts I hold with them. If the Government do not force Santander to make a sharp U turn and if any group 'small claims' is filed then I would want to be part of this. 'Free for life' means just that, no less. Also deceitful of Santander to hide the fact that they planned to change the account in 2015, so it no longer meant 'free for life'. The jury is out on that though.

Bus pass comes to mind

subjecttocontract

noitsnotme said:

MellowJello said:

headsman said:

Section62 said:

As for the sums involved, I don't think someone running a small business would necessarily expect to stop at state pension age - particularly if they have employees and/or family members who help run the business.  There's no reason to think "forever" means 'until reaching age 65'.  However, the uncertainty about how long someone might continue to need their free business account could be a weakness in any 'small claims' for a specific amount.

The business is the relevant entity for this discussion, not the person owning / running it.  It has the legal status of an individual on its own and there's no retirement age for a business and the ownership can change.

if any group 'small claims' is filed then I would want to be part of this.

Any decent size group claim is likely to very quickly exceed the £10000 limit for the small claims track.  Over that and you're starting to get in the territory of higher legal costs and the risk of having to pay the costs of the other party if you lose.

My experience with a class action in the high court.......there was a requirement to take out insurance to cover us for potential costs awarded against us. In our case the insurance premium was based on barristers review of the evidence and opinion of the chance of winning the case.I

I should think that any group claim is going to involve the participants putting their hands in their pockets and taking a chance on success in the courts.

GeoffTF

subjecttocontract said:

noitsnotme said:

MellowJello said:

headsman said:

Section62 said:

As for the sums involved, I don't think someone running a small business would necessarily expect to stop at state pension age - particularly if they have employees and/or family members who help run the business.  There's no reason to think "forever" means 'until reaching age 65'.  However, the uncertainty about how long someone might continue to need their free business account could be a weakness in any 'small claims' for a specific amount.

The business is the relevant entity for this discussion, not the person owning / running it.  It has the legal status of an individual on its own and there's no retirement age for a business and the ownership can change.

if any group 'small claims' is filed then I would want to be part of this.

Any decent size group claim is likely to very quickly exceed the £10000 limit for the small claims track.  Over that and you're starting to get in the territory of higher legal costs and the risk of having to pay the costs of the other party if you lose.

My experience with a class action in the high court.......there was a requirement to take out insurance to cover us for potential costs awarded against us. In our case the insurance premium was based on barristers review of the evidence and opinion of the chance of winning the case.I

I should think that any group claim is going to involve the participants putting their hands in their pockets and taking a chance on success in the courts.

I would be surprised if Santander has not taken legal advice on this matter.

eskbanker

GeoffTF said:

I would be surprised if Santander has not taken legal advice on this matter.

You'd have expected them to have taken legal advice last time they tried too but they went ahead anyway and had to climb down, although in turn you'd expect them to have learned lessons from that and to be surer of their legal footing this time round....

GeoffTF

eskbanker said:

GeoffTF said:

I would be surprised if Santander has not taken legal advice on this matter.

You'd have expected them to have taken legal advice last time they tried too but they went ahead anyway and had to climb down, although in turn you'd expect them to have learned lessons from that and to be surer of their legal footing this time round....

It may be more difficult for Santander to predict what the FOS will do. So far, Santander does not appear to be bowing to public pressure. Perhaps they are following orders from Spain.

subjecttocontract

Sometimes the details are not as clear as you might think, they are not right or wrong, sometimes there are grey areas. In our particular case (against West Brom BS) I believe the group were told there was a 60%+ chance of the case being successful. The result, surprisingly, was the group lost the case and ended up going to the court of appeal where they did finally win.

So even if legal advice has been sought by Santander it may not be clear cut and the judgement on wether to proceed will need to be decided by their senior management.

eskbanker

subjecttocontract said:

Sometimes the details are not as clear as you might think, they are not right or wrong, sometimes there are grey areas. In our particular case (against West Brom BS) I believe the group were told there was a 60%+ chance of the case being successful. The result, surprisingly, was the group lost the case and ended up going to the court of appeal where they did finally win.

So even if legal advice has been sought by Santander it may not be clear cut and the judgement on wether to proceed will need to be decided by their senior management.

My comment about legal advice related to dialogue prior to announcing the start of charging, rather than choosing whether or not to defend a future court claim - clearly there'd be overlap but essentially different decisions, one of which has already been taken.

MellowJello

Government need to step in, not just.lolotely ask to reconsider. Doubt they will pile on any pressure. Santander should not be allowed to renege on the deal, especially not in the current financial climate where many are struggling financially. From 'free for ever' to £9.99 a month is a huge hike and I don't know any other 'organisation' that would be permitted to do such a thing.

clairec666

MellowJello said:

Government need to step in, not just.lolotely ask to reconsider. Doubt they will pile on any pressure. Santander should not be allowed to renege on the deal, especially not in the current financial climate where many are struggling financially. From 'free for ever' to £9.99 a month is a huge hike and I don't know any other 'organisation' that would be permitted to do such a thing.

Also the "free banking forever" promise unfairly gained them a lot of customers - there are other options for free business banking, but presumably people opted for Santander (or its predecessors) because it was free forever, something that other banks weren't offering.

Other banks could claim that Santander have stolen customers from them, by falsely advertising their account.

Also, business banking is very different from personal banking. If they added fees to a personal current account, people would just vote with their feet and switch to the best deal elsewhere. Business don't want to be messing around with switching accounts, and the hassle of updating their banking details with all of their clients. Santander know this, and are taking advantage of the fact that a proportion of their business customers will just cough up the £9.99 per month; a fair chunk will leave in protest, but they won't care, as they've shed all those free accounts that they wanted to be rid of.

I know it's been mentioned already, but don't close any accounts yet, you're unlikely to be able to get it back if Santander are forced to back down - the free banking forever promise will only apply to existing customers, and they simply won't offer that account to new customers.