Nationwide - Lost £440 Payment

francisgc11

born_again said:

francisgc11 said:

born_again said:

francisgc11 said:

Hello I was wondering if anyone can advise me on what to do please,

I withdrew £440 from ‘Britain’s biggest bingo site’ (not sure if I’m allowed to name them T******) late at night on the 14th June 2025, and the next day when I woke up on my front screen notifications it said Nationwide ‘ £440 T****** ‘ approved ‘ .When I went on to my account nothing was in there (usually within 2 hours any other time) so I left it a few days and then contacted T***** who confirmed all was processed fine as was showing on my bingo account - I was told to contact the bank via a complaint with the Aquirer Reference Number and the bank told me to wait so many days as VISA credits can take up to 15 working days, I waited a few days over that and then contacted the bank back with another complaint logged to investigate it, I was told still nothing so I went into branch with the ARN number instead of dealing with a very rude abrupt team over the phone - the branch could not find anything with the ARN number they said wait until Monday and the Bank Manager will be in and they’ll get her to email to confirm nothing showing, pending or received, they also asked me to ask T****** for a ‘ Forward Trace ‘ therefore I done that, Didn’t receive no communication but yesterday received proof of forward trace from T****** via there bank so went to the bank in person again with the ARN, Forward Trace proof and emails from T****** confirming multiple times it’s been processed successfully and left there accounts and has not bounced back, T****** noted that if the payment was successful there would not be an ARN to provide which makes sense, the bank manager was present and rung through to a few departments including the VISA team and said they still can not find nothing with the information given, she provided me with a hand signed headed letter confirming nothing been received. 

I have sufficient evidence from T****** to confirm they have made the payment, and nothing from Nationwide.

For the sake of £50 court fee I am looking to take Nationwide to small claims court to recover this money, as I’ve logged 2 complaints, provided a lot of evidence, about 6 phone calls and 3 branch visits later I’m no further ahead.

Am I right in saying it’s Nationwide who I take to court and not T******, I’m aware the funds come from T****** but they’ve done everything they are meant to do under the Payment Services Regulations 2017, they have gone above and beyond to help me I’ve been dealing with the Fraud and Risk Ops Manager within there business. 

Would it be best to go to Small claims court or Financial Ombudsman service? This has gone on to long now and affecting my mental health, I am aware of the seriously long time it takes FOS to even acknowledge complaints never mind finalise them. 

Does anyone have any other recommendations as I’ve hit a brick wall now and dumbfounded. 

I did seek legal advice via a solicitor who said that if I have ARN, Forward trace letter and emails that’s strong evidence to win in court but wanted £210 to review them documents, which is nearly 50% of the money, times I pay that and court fees I will be left with £180 . Which is pointless I can afford to right of £180 but not £440. - will the court expect me to go to FOS first? I’ve filled the paperwork out and no mention of that but don’t want to go to court and hit another brick wall.

Sorry if Im a tad confusing .

If ARN is not showing on Visa system, then the transaction has not been processed by the gambling company. Payments into bank accounts do not require approval, so that sounds like a message from gambling co.
 Which might explain why they are advising court action. In the hope the bank just stumps up.

TBH, & this may not apply to all banks. But access to Visa/Mastercard backend systems is strictly limited to staff that need it (costs per signon) So is usually limited to fraud & dispute teams who will need regular access.

Hello, no it was a ‘ approved ‘ from nationwide, I think people are mistaken the fact that the bank can decline or allow any incoming and outgoing payments, for whatever reason they like for example fraud etc, again if the payment was not processed there wouldn’t be an ARN number, also they mentioned FOS, not just court, I declined FOS due to the lengthy time and they said last option would be court then. 

Also just to confirm I think the fraud team did have a look because the second complaint, the lady was rather rude and didn’t really make sense but did mention fraud team, I said what why fraud team when no fraud has taken place, that makes sense as to why she said that now. 

Regardless she also spoke to VISA payments team and they said no payment either. 

People need to remember I have the full documentation showing it was successfully processed, the amount and too my card at said date and time. 

Banks can’t forge information and I’d be shocked if they was over the sake of £440. 

So in my opinion it lies with the bank as they’re failing there duties to find my monies. 

T does not just expect the bank to ‘ stump up ‘ but as they said it’s not right it’s my money weather it’s £4 or £440 it’s still my money. 

If you think FOS takes a long time, then you will be waiting even longer for courts to resolve. They are even longer waits.

Incoming payments do not require authorisation, so do not get blocked by banks. As the 1st they know is when it hits your account.

The gambling acc, does have your current card details & not a old stopped card does it?
If it is a old card, then the money could be sat in a internal suspense account. Waiting to be passed over or returned to retailer.

A retailer can invent a ARN (21 digits). Or even use a old one. If nationwide can not find it, then they do not have the payment. 


 I think people are mistaken the fact that the bank can decline or allow any incoming and outgoing payments, for whatever reason they like for example fraud 

Banks have a legal obligation to have card fraud detection systems, which do block payments (not incoming). This is based on known fraud patterns. There is a % limit on blocked/declined payments. If the genuine payments exceed this % then bank gets fined. 
Worked these systems, so know that you are sadly wrong on that point. 

Like I said previously, I highly doubt Barclays Bank (there bank) would forge and invent a false number or replicate a former payment number for the sake of £440, no way on gods earth would they because if it come to light that could be a hefty, hefty fine and that would fall under the category of fraud by misrepresentation so in that case I’m sorry but I do not believe you. 

What ever system you’ve worked on must of been 1990’s or something because your completely unaware of the banking system, I’ve had payments (non fraud related or suspected) declined when I was Banking with Halifax back in 2021 a sum of £1500, nothing major whereby I had to wait for a cheque then cash the cheque. 

So I am very much up to date with banking, sorry I know you’ve only tried to help and I’m not being rude at all but your statements do not make sense, I am not sure why Barclays would falsify any document, that document never come from T it come from there banking team Barclays. Again send me your details and I’ll pass it on to you to review mr solicitor ! 

Also in regards to court I would be very hopeful in the 28 days they get to respond they get there act together and find the payment and then settle outside of court, therefore I will then retract the court proceedings. My plans are my plans whatever route I choose is down to me, not sure why everyone thinks I HAVE to go to FOS, I’m a consumer and I choose what route I want. 

Your correct in what you say with the card number, I did in fact change my card mid way through processing and did not think about the withdrawal until after, but the bank say this is absolutely irrelevant as VISA automatically redirect payments to the new card and reassured me ‘ I have not done anything wrong to prevent successful processing ‘ so I did not mention this for armchair people to jump on and say that’s why, as many times I’ve changed numbers and it’s gone through with other company’s namely Coral and Ladbrokes, besides although my long card number has changed when I go on to settings, then wallet and Apple Pay, then nationwide card and click details the last 4 digits have stayed the same as Apple Pay makes an alternative number to your actual long card number for security, ( check yours if you use Apple Pay ). 

- Again sorry but I do not believe any bank would falsify records. That would be Fraud at its finest. 

Please see below where I have asked 
‘ Can a bank decline an incoming transaction ‘

Yes, a bank can decline an incoming transaction. Banks have various measures in place to protect themselves and their customers from fraud and other risks, which can lead to the rejection of incoming payments. 

Here's a breakdown of reasons why a bank might decline an incoming transaction: 

1. Fraud Prevention: 

• Suspicious Activity:

  Banks use fraud detection systems to identify unusual transactions that might be fraudulent. If a transaction is flagged as suspicious, it could be declined to protect the account holder. 
• Unusual Payments:

  Payments that deviate from a customer's typical spending patterns or are significantly larger than usual might trigger a review and potential rejection. 
• Violations of Regulatory Compliance:

  Banks must adhere to regulations like anti-money laundering (AML) rules. Transactions involving restricted entities or violating these rules could be rejected. 

2. Account-Related Issues: 

• Invalid Account Details:

  Incorrect account numbers or sort codes will prevent a payment from processing, leading to rejection. 

Closed or Blocked Accounts:

If the recipient's account has been closed or blocked, any incoming payments will be rejected. 

Account Limitations:

Some accounts have restrictions on certain transactions, such as payments to specific merchants or countries. If a transaction violates these limitations, it will be declined. 

Insufficient Funds:

If the sender's account lacks the necessary funds to cover the payment, the transaction may be declined. 

Exceeding Limits:

Banks may have daily or transaction-based limits on payments, and exceeding those limits will result in rejection. 

3. Other Reasons: 

• Technical Issues:

  There could be temporary technical glitches or network problems that prevent the transaction from completing. 

Manual Review:

Some payments may be flagged for manual review by the bank, and if there are any concerns, the transaction may be declined. 

Stop Payment Orders:

A customer can instruct their bank to stop a specific payment, which would then be rejected. 

If a transaction is declined, the bank will typically provide a reason for the rejection, which may be visible in the transaction details or through a notification to the sender or recipient. 

Sorry but you have been proved wrong mr banker/lawyer. Again no one has received any notification, myself or Barclays or T so that is not the issue I was just stating a possibility. 

masonic

francisgc11 said:

Also in regards to court I would be very hopeful in the 28 days they get to respond they get there act together and find the payment and then settle outside of court, therefore I will then retract the court proceedings. My plans are my plans whatever route I choose is down to me, not sure why everyone thinks I HAVE to go to FOS, I’m a consumer and I choose what route I want. 

Your correct in what you say with the card number, I did in fact change my card mid way through processing and did not think about the withdrawal until after, but the bank say this is absolutely irrelevant as VISA automatically redirect payments to the new card and reassured me ‘ I have not done anything wrong to prevent successful processing ‘ so I did not mention this for armchair people to jump on and say that’s why, as many times I’ve changed numbers and it’s gone through with other company’s namely Coral and Ladbrokes, besides although my long card number has changed when I go on to settings, then wallet and Apple Pay, then nationwide card and click details the last 4 digits have stayed the same as Apple Pay makes an alternative number to your actual long card number for security, ( check yours if you use Apple Pay ). 

There are two critical pieces of information in the above paragraph which change everything.

1. The card was changed immediately before the withdrawal was made
2. The withdrawal was not made directly to the Nationwide card, but to a virtual debit card number issued by Apple

I think that would add enough reasonable doubt that the money made it beyond Apple. It could be stuck somewhere in the payment network owing to the above issues.

What was Nationwide's exact response when they rejected the ARN? Was it related to the card details not matching your account? Have you provided them with the full details of the virtual debit card number used to make the transaction?

Money_Grabber13579

francisgc11 said:

born_again said:

francisgc11 said:

born_again said:

francisgc11 said:

Hello I was wondering if anyone can advise me on what to do please,

I withdrew £440 from ‘Britain’s biggest bingo site’ (not sure if I’m allowed to name them T******) late at night on the 14th June 2025, and the next day when I woke up on my front screen notifications it said Nationwide ‘ £440 T****** ‘ approved ‘ .When I went on to my account nothing was in there (usually within 2 hours any other time) so I left it a few days and then contacted T***** who confirmed all was processed fine as was showing on my bingo account - I was told to contact the bank via a complaint with the Aquirer Reference Number and the bank told me to wait so many days as VISA credits can take up to 15 working days, I waited a few days over that and then contacted the bank back with another complaint logged to investigate it, I was told still nothing so I went into branch with the ARN number instead of dealing with a very rude abrupt team over the phone - the branch could not find anything with the ARN number they said wait until Monday and the Bank Manager will be in and they’ll get her to email to confirm nothing showing, pending or received, they also asked me to ask T****** for a ‘ Forward Trace ‘ therefore I done that, Didn’t receive no communication but yesterday received proof of forward trace from T****** via there bank so went to the bank in person again with the ARN, Forward Trace proof and emails from T****** confirming multiple times it’s been processed successfully and left there accounts and has not bounced back, T****** noted that if the payment was successful there would not be an ARN to provide which makes sense, the bank manager was present and rung through to a few departments including the VISA team and said they still can not find nothing with the information given, she provided me with a hand signed headed letter confirming nothing been received. 

I have sufficient evidence from T****** to confirm they have made the payment, and nothing from Nationwide.

For the sake of £50 court fee I am looking to take Nationwide to small claims court to recover this money, as I’ve logged 2 complaints, provided a lot of evidence, about 6 phone calls and 3 branch visits later I’m no further ahead.

Am I right in saying it’s Nationwide who I take to court and not T******, I’m aware the funds come from T****** but they’ve done everything they are meant to do under the Payment Services Regulations 2017, they have gone above and beyond to help me I’ve been dealing with the Fraud and Risk Ops Manager within there business. 

Would it be best to go to Small claims court or Financial Ombudsman service? This has gone on to long now and affecting my mental health, I am aware of the seriously long time it takes FOS to even acknowledge complaints never mind finalise them. 

Does anyone have any other recommendations as I’ve hit a brick wall now and dumbfounded. 

I did seek legal advice via a solicitor who said that if I have ARN, Forward trace letter and emails that’s strong evidence to win in court but wanted £210 to review them documents, which is nearly 50% of the money, times I pay that and court fees I will be left with £180 . Which is pointless I can afford to right of £180 but not £440. - will the court expect me to go to FOS first? I’ve filled the paperwork out and no mention of that but don’t want to go to court and hit another brick wall.

Sorry if Im a tad confusing .

If ARN is not showing on Visa system, then the transaction has not been processed by the gambling company. Payments into bank accounts do not require approval, so that sounds like a message from gambling co.
 Which might explain why they are advising court action. In the hope the bank just stumps up.

TBH, & this may not apply to all banks. But access to Visa/Mastercard backend systems is strictly limited to staff that need it (costs per signon) So is usually limited to fraud & dispute teams who will need regular access.

Hello, no it was a ‘ approved ‘ from nationwide, I think people are mistaken the fact that the bank can decline or allow any incoming and outgoing payments, for whatever reason they like for example fraud etc, again if the payment was not processed there wouldn’t be an ARN number, also they mentioned FOS, not just court, I declined FOS due to the lengthy time and they said last option would be court then. 

Also just to confirm I think the fraud team did have a look because the second complaint, the lady was rather rude and didn’t really make sense but did mention fraud team, I said what why fraud team when no fraud has taken place, that makes sense as to why she said that now. 

Regardless she also spoke to VISA payments team and they said no payment either. 

People need to remember I have the full documentation showing it was successfully processed, the amount and too my card at said date and time. 

Banks can’t forge information and I’d be shocked if they was over the sake of £440. 

So in my opinion it lies with the bank as they’re failing there duties to find my monies. 

T does not just expect the bank to ‘ stump up ‘ but as they said it’s not right it’s my money weather it’s £4 or £440 it’s still my money. 

If you think FOS takes a long time, then you will be waiting even longer for courts to resolve. They are even longer waits.

Incoming payments do not require authorisation, so do not get blocked by banks. As the 1st they know is when it hits your account.

The gambling acc, does have your current card details & not a old stopped card does it?
If it is a old card, then the money could be sat in a internal suspense account. Waiting to be passed over or returned to retailer.

A retailer can invent a ARN (21 digits). Or even use a old one. If nationwide can not find it, then they do not have the payment. 


 I think people are mistaken the fact that the bank can decline or allow any incoming and outgoing payments, for whatever reason they like for example fraud 

Banks have a legal obligation to have card fraud detection systems, which do block payments (not incoming). This is based on known fraud patterns. There is a % limit on blocked/declined payments. If the genuine payments exceed this % then bank gets fined. 
Worked these systems, so know that you are sadly wrong on that point. 

Like I said previously, I highly doubt Barclays Bank (there bank) would forge and invent a false number or replicate a former payment number for the sake of £440, no way on gods earth would they because if it come to light that could be a hefty, hefty fine and that would fall under the category of fraud by misrepresentation so in that case I’m sorry but I do not believe you. 

What ever system you’ve worked on must of been 1990’s or something because your completely unaware of the banking system, I’ve had payments (non fraud related or suspected) declined when I was Banking with Halifax back in 2021 a sum of £1500, nothing major whereby I had to wait for a cheque then cash the cheque. 

So I am very much up to date with banking, sorry I know you’ve only tried to help and I’m not being rude at all but your statements do not make sense, I am not sure why Barclays would falsify any document, that document never come from T it come from there banking team Barclays. Again send me your details and I’ll pass it on to you to review mr solicitor ! 

Also in regards to court I would be very hopeful in the 28 days they get to respond they get there act together and find the payment and then settle outside of court, therefore I will then retract the court proceedings. My plans are my plans whatever route I choose is down to me, not sure why everyone thinks I HAVE to go to FOS, I’m a consumer and I choose what route I want. 

Your correct in what you say with the card number, I did in fact change my card mid way through processing and did not think about the withdrawal until after, but the bank say this is absolutely irrelevant as VISA automatically redirect payments to the new card and reassured me ‘ I have not done anything wrong to prevent successful processing ‘ so I did not mention this for armchair people to jump on and say that’s why, as many times I’ve changed numbers and it’s gone through with other company’s namely Coral and Ladbrokes, besides although my long card number has changed when I go on to settings, then wallet and Apple Pay, then nationwide card and click details the last 4 digits have stayed the same as Apple Pay makes an alternative number to your actual long card number for security, ( check yours if you use Apple Pay ). 

- Again sorry but I do not believe any bank would falsify records. That would be Fraud at its finest. 

Please see below where I have asked 
‘ Can a bank decline an incoming transaction ‘

Yes, a bank can decline an incoming transaction. Banks have various measures in place to protect themselves and their customers from fraud and other risks, which can lead to the rejection of incoming payments. 

Here's a breakdown of reasons why a bank might decline an incoming transaction: 

1. Fraud Prevention: 

• Suspicious Activity:

  Banks use fraud detection systems to identify unusual transactions that might be fraudulent. If a transaction is flagged as suspicious, it could be declined to protect the account holder. 
• Unusual Payments:

  Payments that deviate from a customer's typical spending patterns or are significantly larger than usual might trigger a review and potential rejection. 
• Violations of Regulatory Compliance:

  Banks must adhere to regulations like anti-money laundering (AML) rules. Transactions involving restricted entities or violating these rules could be rejected. 

2. Account-Related Issues: 

• Invalid Account Details:

  Incorrect account numbers or sort codes will prevent a payment from processing, leading to rejection. 
• Closed or Blocked Accounts:

  If the recipient's account has been closed or blocked, any incoming payments will be rejected. 
• Account Limitations:

  Some accounts have restrictions on certain transactions, such as payments to specific merchants or countries. If a transaction violates these limitations, it will be declined. 
• Insufficient Funds:

  If the sender's account lacks the necessary funds to cover the payment, the transaction may be declined. 
• Exceeding Limits:

  Banks may have daily or transaction-based limits on payments, and exceeding those limits will result in rejection. 

3. Other Reasons: 

• Technical Issues:

  There could be temporary technical glitches or network problems that prevent the transaction from completing. 
• Manual Review:

  Some payments may be flagged for manual review by the bank, and if there are any concerns, the transaction may be declined. 
• Stop Payment Orders:

  A customer can instruct their bank to stop a specific payment, which would then be rejected. 

If a transaction is declined, the bank will typically provide a reason for the rejection, which may be visible in the transaction details or through a notification to the sender or recipient. 

Sorry but you have been proved wrong mr banker/lawyer. Again no one has received any notification, myself or Barclays or T so that is not the issue I was just stating a possibility. 

Are you basing all of your views on what AI tells you? You do realise how AI works I.e. that the sentences it constructs are based on expected word patterns and so is frequently incorrect?

born_again

francisgc11 said:

born_again said:

francisgc11 said:

born_again said:

francisgc11 said:

Hello I was wondering if anyone can advise me on what to do please,

I withdrew £440 from ‘Britain’s biggest bingo site’ (not sure if I’m allowed to name them T******) late at night on the 14th June 2025, and the next day when I woke up on my front screen notifications it said Nationwide ‘ £440 T****** ‘ approved ‘ .When I went on to my account nothing was in there (usually within 2 hours any other time) so I left it a few days and then contacted T***** who confirmed all was processed fine as was showing on my bingo account - I was told to contact the bank via a complaint with the Aquirer Reference Number and the bank told me to wait so many days as VISA credits can take up to 15 working days, I waited a few days over that and then contacted the bank back with another complaint logged to investigate it, I was told still nothing so I went into branch with the ARN number instead of dealing with a very rude abrupt team over the phone - the branch could not find anything with the ARN number they said wait until Monday and the Bank Manager will be in and they’ll get her to email to confirm nothing showing, pending or received, they also asked me to ask T****** for a ‘ Forward Trace ‘ therefore I done that, Didn’t receive no communication but yesterday received proof of forward trace from T****** via there bank so went to the bank in person again with the ARN, Forward Trace proof and emails from T****** confirming multiple times it’s been processed successfully and left there accounts and has not bounced back, T****** noted that if the payment was successful there would not be an ARN to provide which makes sense, the bank manager was present and rung through to a few departments including the VISA team and said they still can not find nothing with the information given, she provided me with a hand signed headed letter confirming nothing been received. 

I have sufficient evidence from T****** to confirm they have made the payment, and nothing from Nationwide.

For the sake of £50 court fee I am looking to take Nationwide to small claims court to recover this money, as I’ve logged 2 complaints, provided a lot of evidence, about 6 phone calls and 3 branch visits later I’m no further ahead.

Am I right in saying it’s Nationwide who I take to court and not T******, I’m aware the funds come from T****** but they’ve done everything they are meant to do under the Payment Services Regulations 2017, they have gone above and beyond to help me I’ve been dealing with the Fraud and Risk Ops Manager within there business. 

Would it be best to go to Small claims court or Financial Ombudsman service? This has gone on to long now and affecting my mental health, I am aware of the seriously long time it takes FOS to even acknowledge complaints never mind finalise them. 

Does anyone have any other recommendations as I’ve hit a brick wall now and dumbfounded. 

I did seek legal advice via a solicitor who said that if I have ARN, Forward trace letter and emails that’s strong evidence to win in court but wanted £210 to review them documents, which is nearly 50% of the money, times I pay that and court fees I will be left with £180 . Which is pointless I can afford to right of £180 but not £440. - will the court expect me to go to FOS first? I’ve filled the paperwork out and no mention of that but don’t want to go to court and hit another brick wall.

Sorry if Im a tad confusing .

If ARN is not showing on Visa system, then the transaction has not been processed by the gambling company. Payments into bank accounts do not require approval, so that sounds like a message from gambling co.
 Which might explain why they are advising court action. In the hope the bank just stumps up.

TBH, & this may not apply to all banks. But access to Visa/Mastercard backend systems is strictly limited to staff that need it (costs per signon) So is usually limited to fraud & dispute teams who will need regular access.

Hello, no it was a ‘ approved ‘ from nationwide, I think people are mistaken the fact that the bank can decline or allow any incoming and outgoing payments, for whatever reason they like for example fraud etc, again if the payment was not processed there wouldn’t be an ARN number, also they mentioned FOS, not just court, I declined FOS due to the lengthy time and they said last option would be court then. 

Also just to confirm I think the fraud team did have a look because the second complaint, the lady was rather rude and didn’t really make sense but did mention fraud team, I said what why fraud team when no fraud has taken place, that makes sense as to why she said that now. 

Regardless she also spoke to VISA payments team and they said no payment either. 

People need to remember I have the full documentation showing it was successfully processed, the amount and too my card at said date and time. 

Banks can’t forge information and I’d be shocked if they was over the sake of £440. 

So in my opinion it lies with the bank as they’re failing there duties to find my monies. 

T does not just expect the bank to ‘ stump up ‘ but as they said it’s not right it’s my money weather it’s £4 or £440 it’s still my money. 

If you think FOS takes a long time, then you will be waiting even longer for courts to resolve. They are even longer waits.

Incoming payments do not require authorisation, so do not get blocked by banks. As the 1st they know is when it hits your account.

The gambling acc, does have your current card details & not a old stopped card does it?
If it is a old card, then the money could be sat in a internal suspense account. Waiting to be passed over or returned to retailer.

A retailer can invent a ARN (21 digits). Or even use a old one. If nationwide can not find it, then they do not have the payment. 


 I think people are mistaken the fact that the bank can decline or allow any incoming and outgoing payments, for whatever reason they like for example fraud 

Banks have a legal obligation to have card fraud detection systems, which do block payments (not incoming). This is based on known fraud patterns. There is a % limit on blocked/declined payments. If the genuine payments exceed this % then bank gets fined. 
Worked these systems, so know that you are sadly wrong on that point. 

Like I said previously, I highly doubt Barclays Bank (there bank) would forge and invent a false number or replicate a former payment number for the sake of £440, no way on gods earth would they because if it come to light that could be a hefty, hefty fine and that would fall under the category of fraud by misrepresentation so in that case I’m sorry but I do not believe you. 

What ever system you’ve worked on must of been 1990’s or something because your completely unaware of the banking system, I’ve had payments (non fraud related or suspected) declined when I was Banking with Halifax back in 2021 a sum of £1500, nothing major whereby I had to wait for a cheque then cash the cheque. 

So I am very much up to date with banking, sorry I know you’ve only tried to help and I’m not being rude at all but your statements do not make sense, I am not sure why Barclays would falsify any document, that document never come from T it come from there banking team Barclays. Again send me your details and I’ll pass it on to you to review mr solicitor ! 

Also in regards to court I would be very hopeful in the 28 days they get to respond they get there act together and find the payment and then settle outside of court, therefore I will then retract the court proceedings. My plans are my plans whatever route I choose is down to me, not sure why everyone thinks I HAVE to go to FOS, I’m a consumer and I choose what route I want. 

Your correct in what you say with the card number, I did in fact change my card mid way through processing and did not think about the withdrawal until after, but the bank say this is absolutely irrelevant as VISA automatically redirect payments to the new card and reassured me ‘ I have not done anything wrong to prevent successful processing ‘ so I did not mention this for armchair people to jump on and say that’s why, as many times I’ve changed numbers and it’s gone through with other company’s namely Coral and Ladbrokes, besides although my long card number has changed when I go on to settings, then wallet and Apple Pay, then nationwide card and click details the last 4 digits have stayed the same as Apple Pay makes an alternative number to your actual long card number for security, ( check yours if you use Apple Pay ). 

- Again sorry but I do not believe any bank would falsify records. That would be Fraud at its finest. 

Please see below where I have asked 
‘ Can a bank decline an incoming transaction ‘

Yes, a bank can decline an incoming transaction. Banks have various measures in place to protect themselves and their customers from fraud and other risks, which can lead to the rejection of incoming payments. 

Here's a breakdown of reasons why a bank might decline an incoming transaction: 

1. Fraud Prevention: 

• Suspicious Activity:

  Banks use fraud detection systems to identify unusual transactions that might be fraudulent. If a transaction is flagged as suspicious, it could be declined to protect the account holder. 
• Unusual Payments:

  Payments that deviate from a customer's typical spending patterns or are significantly larger than usual might trigger a review and potential rejection. 
• Violations of Regulatory Compliance:

  Banks must adhere to regulations like anti-money laundering (AML) rules. Transactions involving restricted entities or violating these rules could be rejected. 

2. Account-Related Issues: 

• Invalid Account Details:

  Incorrect account numbers or sort codes will prevent a payment from processing, leading to rejection. 
• Closed or Blocked Accounts:

  If the recipient's account has been closed or blocked, any incoming payments will be rejected. 
• Account Limitations:

  Some accounts have restrictions on certain transactions, such as payments to specific merchants or countries. If a transaction violates these limitations, it will be declined. 
• Insufficient Funds:

  If the sender's account lacks the necessary funds to cover the payment, the transaction may be declined. 
• Exceeding Limits:

  Banks may have daily or transaction-based limits on payments, and exceeding those limits will result in rejection. 

3. Other Reasons: 

• Technical Issues:

  There could be temporary technical glitches or network problems that prevent the transaction from completing. 
• Manual Review:

  Some payments may be flagged for manual review by the bank, and if there are any concerns, the transaction may be declined. 
• Stop Payment Orders:

  A customer can instruct their bank to stop a specific payment, which would then be rejected. 

If a transaction is declined, the bank will typically provide a reason for the rejection, which may be visible in the transaction details or through a notification to the sender or recipient. 

Sorry but you have been proved wrong mr banker/lawyer. Again no one has received any notification, myself or Barclays or T so that is not the issue I was just stating a possibility. 

Where did I mention Barclays?

I said the gambling co creating a fake ARN...

Bank is wrong. Visa do not redirect credits to new card, they are processed on old card details & will be sat in a Nationwide suspense account, if they have been processed.
 Visa Updater System, is a one way system. It only passes new card number to retailer when they request funds from a old card.

Also ML comes into play here & credits go to card details used to fund the account.

Still work on banking systems & this is something I do.

As this is a public forum, feel free to believe what you want.
So I will step back & leave you to it 👍

harz99

born_again said:

francisgc11 said:

born_again said:

francisgc11 said:

born_again said:

francisgc11 said:

Hello I was wondering if anyone can advise me on what to do please,

I withdrew £440 from ‘Britain’s biggest bingo site’ (not sure if I’m allowed to name them T******) late at night on the 14th June 2025, and the next day when I woke up on my front screen notifications it said Nationwide ‘ £440 T****** ‘ approved ‘ .When I went on to my account nothing was in there (usually within 2 hours any other time) so I left it a few days and then contacted T***** who confirmed all was processed fine as was showing on my bingo account - I was told to contact the bank via a complaint with the Aquirer Reference Number and the bank told me to wait so many days as VISA credits can take up to 15 working days, I waited a few days over that and then contacted the bank back with another complaint logged to investigate it, I was told still nothing so I went into branch with the ARN number instead of dealing with a very rude abrupt team over the phone - the branch could not find anything with the ARN number they said wait until Monday and the Bank Manager will be in and they’ll get her to email to confirm nothing showing, pending or received, they also asked me to ask T****** for a ‘ Forward Trace ‘ therefore I done that, Didn’t receive no communication but yesterday received proof of forward trace from T****** via there bank so went to the bank in person again with the ARN, Forward Trace proof and emails from T****** confirming multiple times it’s been processed successfully and left there accounts and has not bounced back, T****** noted that if the payment was successful there would not be an ARN to provide which makes sense, the bank manager was present and rung through to a few departments including the VISA team and said they still can not find nothing with the information given, she provided me with a hand signed headed letter confirming nothing been received. 

I have sufficient evidence from T****** to confirm they have made the payment, and nothing from Nationwide.

For the sake of £50 court fee I am looking to take Nationwide to small claims court to recover this money, as I’ve logged 2 complaints, provided a lot of evidence, about 6 phone calls and 3 branch visits later I’m no further ahead.

Am I right in saying it’s Nationwide who I take to court and not T******, I’m aware the funds come from T****** but they’ve done everything they are meant to do under the Payment Services Regulations 2017, they have gone above and beyond to help me I’ve been dealing with the Fraud and Risk Ops Manager within there business. 

Would it be best to go to Small claims court or Financial Ombudsman service? This has gone on to long now and affecting my mental health, I am aware of the seriously long time it takes FOS to even acknowledge complaints never mind finalise them. 

Does anyone have any other recommendations as I’ve hit a brick wall now and dumbfounded. 

I did seek legal advice via a solicitor who said that if I have ARN, Forward trace letter and emails that’s strong evidence to win in court but wanted £210 to review them documents, which is nearly 50% of the money, times I pay that and court fees I will be left with £180 . Which is pointless I can afford to right of £180 but not £440. - will the court expect me to go to FOS first? I’ve filled the paperwork out and no mention of that but don’t want to go to court and hit another brick wall.

Sorry if Im a tad confusing .

If ARN is not showing on Visa system, then the transaction has not been processed by the gambling company. Payments into bank accounts do not require approval, so that sounds like a message from gambling co.
 Which might explain why they are advising court action. In the hope the bank just stumps up.

TBH, & this may not apply to all banks. But access to Visa/Mastercard backend systems is strictly limited to staff that need it (costs per signon) So is usually limited to fraud & dispute teams who will need regular access.

Hello, no it was a ‘ approved ‘ from nationwide, I think people are mistaken the fact that the bank can decline or allow any incoming and outgoing payments, for whatever reason they like for example fraud etc, again if the payment was not processed there wouldn’t be an ARN number, also they mentioned FOS, not just court, I declined FOS due to the lengthy time and they said last option would be court then. 

Also just to confirm I think the fraud team did have a look because the second complaint, the lady was rather rude and didn’t really make sense but did mention fraud team, I said what why fraud team when no fraud has taken place, that makes sense as to why she said that now. 

Regardless she also spoke to VISA payments team and they said no payment either. 

People need to remember I have the full documentation showing it was successfully processed, the amount and too my card at said date and time. 

Banks can’t forge information and I’d be shocked if they was over the sake of £440. 

So in my opinion it lies with the bank as they’re failing there duties to find my monies. 

T does not just expect the bank to ‘ stump up ‘ but as they said it’s not right it’s my money weather it’s £4 or £440 it’s still my money. 

If you think FOS takes a long time, then you will be waiting even longer for courts to resolve. They are even longer waits.

Incoming payments do not require authorisation, so do not get blocked by banks. As the 1st they know is when it hits your account.

The gambling acc, does have your current card details & not a old stopped card does it?
If it is a old card, then the money could be sat in a internal suspense account. Waiting to be passed over or returned to retailer.

A retailer can invent a ARN (21 digits). Or even use a old one. If nationwide can not find it, then they do not have the payment. 


 I think people are mistaken the fact that the bank can decline or allow any incoming and outgoing payments, for whatever reason they like for example fraud 

Banks have a legal obligation to have card fraud detection systems, which do block payments (not incoming). This is based on known fraud patterns. There is a % limit on blocked/declined payments. If the genuine payments exceed this % then bank gets fined. 
Worked these systems, so know that you are sadly wrong on that point. 

Like I said previously, I highly doubt Barclays Bank (there bank) would forge and invent a false number or replicate a former payment number for the sake of £440, no way on gods earth would they because if it come to light that could be a hefty, hefty fine and that would fall under the category of fraud by misrepresentation so in that case I’m sorry but I do not believe you. 

What ever system you’ve worked on must of been 1990’s or something because your completely unaware of the banking system, I’ve had payments (non fraud related or suspected) declined when I was Banking with Halifax back in 2021 a sum of £1500, nothing major whereby I had to wait for a cheque then cash the cheque. 

So I am very much up to date with banking, sorry I know you’ve only tried to help and I’m not being rude at all but your statements do not make sense, I am not sure why Barclays would falsify any document, that document never come from T it come from there banking team Barclays. Again send me your details and I’ll pass it on to you to review mr solicitor ! 

Also in regards to court I would be very hopeful in the 28 days they get to respond they get there act together and find the payment and then settle outside of court, therefore I will then retract the court proceedings. My plans are my plans whatever route I choose is down to me, not sure why everyone thinks I HAVE to go to FOS, I’m a consumer and I choose what route I want. 

Your correct in what you say with the card number, I did in fact change my card mid way through processing and did not think about the withdrawal until after, but the bank say this is absolutely irrelevant as VISA automatically redirect payments to the new card and reassured me ‘ I have not done anything wrong to prevent successful processing ‘ so I did not mention this for armchair people to jump on and say that’s why, as many times I’ve changed numbers and it’s gone through with other company’s namely Coral and Ladbrokes, besides although my long card number has changed when I go on to settings, then wallet and Apple Pay, then nationwide card and click details the last 4 digits have stayed the same as Apple Pay makes an alternative number to your actual long card number for security, ( check yours if you use Apple Pay ). 

- Again sorry but I do not believe any bank would falsify records. That would be Fraud at its finest. 

Please see below where I have asked 
‘ Can a bank decline an incoming transaction ‘

Yes, a bank can decline an incoming transaction. Banks have various measures in place to protect themselves and their customers from fraud and other risks, which can lead to the rejection of incoming payments. 

Here's a breakdown of reasons why a bank might decline an incoming transaction: 

1. Fraud Prevention: 

• Suspicious Activity:

  Banks use fraud detection systems to identify unusual transactions that might be fraudulent. If a transaction is flagged as suspicious, it could be declined to protect the account holder. 
• Unusual Payments:

  Payments that deviate from a customer's typical spending patterns or are significantly larger than usual might trigger a review and potential rejection. 
• Violations of Regulatory Compliance:

  Banks must adhere to regulations like anti-money laundering (AML) rules. Transactions involving restricted entities or violating these rules could be rejected. 

2. Account-Related Issues: 

• Invalid Account Details:

  Incorrect account numbers or sort codes will prevent a payment from processing, leading to rejection. 
• Closed or Blocked Accounts:

  If the recipient's account has been closed or blocked, any incoming payments will be rejected. 
• Account Limitations:

  Some accounts have restrictions on certain transactions, such as payments to specific merchants or countries. If a transaction violates these limitations, it will be declined. 
• Insufficient Funds:

  If the sender's account lacks the necessary funds to cover the payment, the transaction may be declined. 
• Exceeding Limits:

  Banks may have daily or transaction-based limits on payments, and exceeding those limits will result in rejection. 

3. Other Reasons: 

• Technical Issues:

  There could be temporary technical glitches or network problems that prevent the transaction from completing. 
• Manual Review:

  Some payments may be flagged for manual review by the bank, and if there are any concerns, the transaction may be declined. 
• Stop Payment Orders:

  A customer can instruct their bank to stop a specific payment, which would then be rejected. 

If a transaction is declined, the bank will typically provide a reason for the rejection, which may be visible in the transaction details or through a notification to the sender or recipient. 

Sorry but you have been proved wrong mr banker/lawyer. Again no one has received any notification, myself or Barclays or T so that is not the issue I was just stating a possibility. 

Still work on banking systems & this is something I do.

As this is a public forum, feel free to believe what you want.
So I will step back & leave you to it 👍

I don't blame you, I'd have been gone a long time ago!

gt94sss2

sheenas said:

The fact that you got a notification from nationwide proves they must have the arn number or if they don’t a failure in their process system. Visa has a very robust dispute system and it seams odd they are not using it.

The last time I checked Nationwide do not do push notifications within their app.

In fact, their website still says the feature is "coming soon" (https://www.nationwide.co.uk/ways-to-bank/banking-app/)

As for the OP, be aware that in general courts do not look favourably on people who take court action if there is another option like an ombudsman available.

You can always take legal action after the FOS has looked at it if you don't get the result you want.

MSE_JC

Hi all,

A gentle reminder for everyone to please be mindful of the tone of your posts. The Forum is intended to be a useful space for people to request and provide MoneySaving insight, so we ask all users to conduct themselves with respect and empathy.

Thanks,

MSE Forum Team