Nationwide - Lost £440 Payment

francisgc11

born_again said:

francisgc11 said:

Hello I was wondering if anyone can advise me on what to do please,

I withdrew £440 from ‘Britain’s biggest bingo site’ (not sure if I’m allowed to name them T******) late at night on the 14th June 2025, and the next day when I woke up on my front screen notifications it said Nationwide ‘ £440 T****** ‘ approved ‘ .When I went on to my account nothing was in there (usually within 2 hours any other time) so I left it a few days and then contacted T***** who confirmed all was processed fine as was showing on my bingo account - I was told to contact the bank via a complaint with the Aquirer Reference Number and the bank told me to wait so many days as VISA credits can take up to 15 working days, I waited a few days over that and then contacted the bank back with another complaint logged to investigate it, I was told still nothing so I went into branch with the ARN number instead of dealing with a very rude abrupt team over the phone - the branch could not find anything with the ARN number they said wait until Monday and the Bank Manager will be in and they’ll get her to email to confirm nothing showing, pending or received, they also asked me to ask T****** for a ‘ Forward Trace ‘ therefore I done that, Didn’t receive no communication but yesterday received proof of forward trace from T****** via there bank so went to the bank in person again with the ARN, Forward Trace proof and emails from T****** confirming multiple times it’s been processed successfully and left there accounts and has not bounced back, T****** noted that if the payment was successful there would not be an ARN to provide which makes sense, the bank manager was present and rung through to a few departments including the VISA team and said they still can not find nothing with the information given, she provided me with a hand signed headed letter confirming nothing been received. 

I have sufficient evidence from T****** to confirm they have made the payment, and nothing from Nationwide.

For the sake of £50 court fee I am looking to take Nationwide to small claims court to recover this money, as I’ve logged 2 complaints, provided a lot of evidence, about 6 phone calls and 3 branch visits later I’m no further ahead.

Am I right in saying it’s Nationwide who I take to court and not T******, I’m aware the funds come from T****** but they’ve done everything they are meant to do under the Payment Services Regulations 2017, they have gone above and beyond to help me I’ve been dealing with the Fraud and Risk Ops Manager within there business. 

Would it be best to go to Small claims court or Financial Ombudsman service? This has gone on to long now and affecting my mental health, I am aware of the seriously long time it takes FOS to even acknowledge complaints never mind finalise them. 

Does anyone have any other recommendations as I’ve hit a brick wall now and dumbfounded. 

I did seek legal advice via a solicitor who said that if I have ARN, Forward trace letter and emails that’s strong evidence to win in court but wanted £210 to review them documents, which is nearly 50% of the money, times I pay that and court fees I will be left with £180 . Which is pointless I can afford to right of £180 but not £440. - will the court expect me to go to FOS first? I’ve filled the paperwork out and no mention of that but don’t want to go to court and hit another brick wall.

Sorry if Im a tad confusing .

If ARN is not showing on Visa system, then the transaction has not been processed by the gambling company. Payments into bank accounts do not require approval, so that sounds like a message from gambling co.
 Which might explain why they are advising court action. In the hope the bank just stumps up.

TBH, & this may not apply to all banks. But access to Visa/Mastercard backend systems is strictly limited to staff that need it (costs per signon) So is usually limited to fraud & dispute teams who will need regular access.

Hello, no it was a ‘ approved ‘ from nationwide, I think people are mistaken the fact that the bank can decline or allow any incoming and outgoing payments, for whatever reason they like for example fraud etc, again if the payment was not processed there wouldn’t be an ARN number, also they mentioned FOS, not just court, I declined FOS due to the lengthy time and they said last option would be court then. 

Also just to confirm I think the fraud team did have a look because the second complaint, the lady was rather rude and didn’t really make sense but did mention fraud team, I said what why fraud team when no fraud has taken place, that makes sense as to why she said that now. 

Regardless she also spoke to VISA payments team and they said no payment either. 

People need to remember I have the full documentation showing it was successfully processed, the amount and too my card at said date and time. 

Banks can’t forge information and I’d be shocked if they was over the sake of £440. 

So in my opinion it lies with the bank as they’re failing there duties to find my monies. 

T does not just expect the bank to ‘ stump up ‘ but as they said it’s not right it’s my money weather it’s £4 or £440 it’s still my money. 

masonic

francisgc11 said:

masonic said:

sheenas said:

The fact that you got a notification from nationwide proves they must have the arn number or if they don’t a failure in their process system. Visa has a very robust dispute system and it seams odd they are not using it.

It's not at all clear it was "from Nationwide". Which company's app is more likely to send a push notification confirming the withdrawal has been approved? If it was from Nationwide, then it sounds more like a debit than a credit.

Overall lots of questions remain

• Gambling site has furnished OP with ARN and forward trace, presumably showing payment successful
• Nationwide has had sight of these, yet has simply claimed they've not received, apparently without doing their own trace, which presumably they have the capacity to do
• Neither have Nationwide used it to raise a dispute
• Formal complaint has been open for some time now (not sure exactly how long). Nationwide would surely know FOS will uphold if they haven't investigated further than an outright denial
• If Nationwide have checked the ARN and it doesn't relate to the OP's card, then obviously they wouldn't be able to share information about the transaction, but surely they'd be able to tell the OP its for the wrong account

Hello in response to your comments, 
I also get push notifications when something has credited my account, again please tell me how and I will prove this. 

The bank shut both complaints down within a few days and basically forced me to agree to it because they said they’ve hit a dead end, I myself don’t know what to do I really feel like writing the money of and forgetting about it ! 

The stress is unbelievable, the ARN I provided nationwide does link to my card as per the paperwork, but they are saying nothing at all with the numbers provided. Which I find odd, I don’t actually believe they’ve done the search far and wide because like you said about fraud teams etc having access to it, they done a few searches but nothing major, the bank manager went out the back and rang through internally so I’m not sure what departments she rang but she sure as hell told me one of them was VISA payments team, just to confirm formal complaint isn’t still open. 

Again just to confirm I do have the ARN, along with the forward trace from T to prove it’s been SUCCESSFULLY processed to my card and the amount and even the exact time, which was 15/06/2025 at 1.50.55 am . So in my opinion that is sufficient evidence right? 

If you made your original complaint to Nationwide on or prior to 17th May, and you remain dissatisfied with their response, you can immediately open a complaint with the FOS, and I'd suggest you do this as it will cost you nothing, the FOS has the power to get information from Nationwide, including things they may not be willing to disclose from you, and it doesn't stop you taking legal action later if you choose.

The evidence you have is strong, but there is no way of knowing what Nationwide will submit in defence of your claim. I don't know why they aren't behaving as expected, but I would not be willing to risk any money on legal proceedings when there is a risk it is actually T that has done something wrong, unlikely as it may seem on the evidence you have.

francisgc11

Olenna said:

Firstly, your title is wrong as you have zero evidence that Nationwide have lost anything yet. 

Does the gambling firm have a complaints procedure including 3rd party adjudication?

I think you will find my title is very much correct, and I have a lot of evidence they have lost it, the gambling firm have sufficient evidence that they have processed successfully to my card and what time and date and the amount, the fact it come up as a push notification from Nationwide, I think your find as per the lawyers advice that it’s very much nationwide I take to court and very much nationwide who has failed to find the money and very much nationwide who has had this issue before, the gambling company does have these procedures but again I have no need to do that via them as they’ve done there side and proved it. So I’m lost as to how you come to your decision . Thank you 

francisgc11

masonic said:

francisgc11 said:

masonic said:

sheenas said:

The fact that you got a notification from nationwide proves they must have the arn number or if they don’t a failure in their process system. Visa has a very robust dispute system and it seams odd they are not using it.

It's not at all clear it was "from Nationwide". Which company's app is more likely to send a push notification confirming the withdrawal has been approved? If it was from Nationwide, then it sounds more like a debit than a credit.

Overall lots of questions remain

• Gambling site has furnished OP with ARN and forward trace, presumably showing payment successful
• Nationwide has had sight of these, yet has simply claimed they've not received, apparently without doing their own trace, which presumably they have the capacity to do
• Neither have Nationwide used it to raise a dispute
• Formal complaint has been open for some time now (not sure exactly how long). Nationwide would surely know FOS will uphold if they haven't investigated further than an outright denial
• If Nationwide have checked the ARN and it doesn't relate to the OP's card, then obviously they wouldn't be able to share information about the transaction, but surely they'd be able to tell the OP its for the wrong account

Hello in response to your comments, 
I also get push notifications when something has credited my account, again please tell me how and I will prove this. 

The bank shut both complaints down within a few days and basically forced me to agree to it because they said they’ve hit a dead end, I myself don’t know what to do I really feel like writing the money of and forgetting about it ! 

The stress is unbelievable, the ARN I provided nationwide does link to my card as per the paperwork, but they are saying nothing at all with the numbers provided. Which I find odd, I don’t actually believe they’ve done the search far and wide because like you said about fraud teams etc having access to it, they done a few searches but nothing major, the bank manager went out the back and rang through internally so I’m not sure what departments she rang but she sure as hell told me one of them was VISA payments team, just to confirm formal complaint isn’t still open. 

Again just to confirm I do have the ARN, along with the forward trace from T to prove it’s been SUCCESSFULLY processed to my card and the amount and even the exact time, which was 15/06/2025 at 1.50.55 am . So in my opinion that is sufficient evidence right? 

If you made your original complaint to Nationwide on or prior to 17th May, and you remain dissatisfied with their response, you can immediately open a complaint with the FOS, and I'd suggest you do this as it will cost you nothing, the FOS has the power to get information from Nationwide, including things they may not be willing to disclose from you, and it doesn't stop you taking legal action later if you choose.

The evidence you have is strong, but there is no way of knowing what Nationwide will submit in defence of your claim. I don't know why they aren't behaving as expected, but I would not be willing to risk any money on legal proceedings when there is a risk it is actually T that has done something wrong, unlikely as it may seem on the evidence you have.

Thank you for your reply, you are correct in what you say but I wouldn’t have to pay for a solicitor as per the solicitors advice because it’s pretty straight forward he said they would probably settle out of court given the information I have, I think personally if I submitted the claim forms (I have to serve them a copy) they would really pull there finger out and find it, as I’ve done the paperwork online already and stated everything within it, they have 28 days (I think) to respond and I do believe they would find it after doing so.
I do get what you mean in regards to the risk of T, but I can’t see any risk when I have a lot of evidence they’ve done there job and it’s successfully gone through, if they didn’t provide it then I’d have no leg to stand on and I’d agree, but Nationwide aren’t willing to help, I’m also going to get a copy of the calls to nationwide to prove how unwilling to help they’ve been. 

francisgc11

francisgc11 said:

masonic said:

francisgc11 said:

masonic said:

sheenas said:

The fact that you got a notification from nationwide proves they must have the arn number or if they don’t a failure in their process system. Visa has a very robust dispute system and it seams odd they are not using it.

It's not at all clear it was "from Nationwide". Which company's app is more likely to send a push notification confirming the withdrawal has been approved? If it was from Nationwide, then it sounds more like a debit than a credit.

Overall lots of questions remain

• Gambling site has furnished OP with ARN and forward trace, presumably showing payment successful
• Nationwide has had sight of these, yet has simply claimed they've not received, apparently without doing their own trace, which presumably they have the capacity to do
• Neither have Nationwide used it to raise a dispute
• Formal complaint has been open for some time now (not sure exactly how long). Nationwide would surely know FOS will uphold if they haven't investigated further than an outright denial
• If Nationwide have checked the ARN and it doesn't relate to the OP's card, then obviously they wouldn't be able to share information about the transaction, but surely they'd be able to tell the OP its for the wrong account

Hello in response to your comments, 
I also get push notifications when something has credited my account, again please tell me how and I will prove this. 

The bank shut both complaints down within a few days and basically forced me to agree to it because they said they’ve hit a dead end, I myself don’t know what to do I really feel like writing the money of and forgetting about it ! 

The stress is unbelievable, the ARN I provided nationwide does link to my card as per the paperwork, but they are saying nothing at all with the numbers provided. Which I find odd, I don’t actually believe they’ve done the search far and wide because like you said about fraud teams etc having access to it, they done a few searches but nothing major, the bank manager went out the back and rang through internally so I’m not sure what departments she rang but she sure as hell told me one of them was VISA payments team, just to confirm formal complaint isn’t still open. 

Again just to confirm I do have the ARN, along with the forward trace from T to prove it’s been SUCCESSFULLY processed to my card and the amount and even the exact time, which was 15/06/2025 at 1.50.55 am . So in my opinion that is sufficient evidence right? 

If you made your original complaint to Nationwide on or prior to 17th May, and you remain dissatisfied with their response, you can immediately open a complaint with the FOS, and I'd suggest you do this as it will cost you nothing, the FOS has the power to get information from Nationwide, including things they may not be willing to disclose from you, and it doesn't stop you taking legal action later if you choose.

The evidence you have is strong, but there is no way of knowing what Nationwide will submit in defence of your claim. I don't know why they aren't behaving as expected, but I would not be willing to risk any money on legal proceedings when there is a risk it is actually T that has done something wrong, unlikely as it may seem on the evidence you have.

Thank you for your reply, you are correct in what you say but I wouldn’t have to pay for a solicitor as per the solicitors advice because it’s pretty straight forward he said they would probably settle out of court given the information I have, I think personally if I submitted the claim forms (I have to serve them a copy) they would really pull there finger out and find it, as I’ve done the paperwork online already and stated everything within it, they have 28 days (I think) to respond and I do believe they would find it after doing so.
I do get what you mean in regards to the risk of T, but I can’t see any risk when I have a lot of evidence they’ve done there job and it’s successfully gone through, if they didn’t provide it then I’d have no leg to stand on and I’d agree, but Nationwide aren’t willing to help, I’m also going to get a copy of the calls to nationwide to prove how unwilling to help they’ve been. 

I would represent myself as ‘ litigant in person ‘ 

Hoenir

Transactions within the banking system frequently go awry for all sorts of reasons. End up in suspense accounts. Awaiting manual resolution. Transactions are processed and cleared in chronological order.  Rather than waste time looking for needles in haystacks banks simply bide their time. Sooner or later all will be resolved.

masonic

Well if you are sure you don't want to use the FOS, then the next step would be to send a Letter Before Action to Nationwide's registered address and give them 14 days to respond. Only then can you make a claim, which they will need to respond to within 28 days. There is now a mandatory mediation call that must take place before a hearing (if Nationwide submit a defence to the claim). There will be a separate hearing fee to pay if it isn't settled at the mediation stage. You cannot reclaim the cost of obtaining legal advice if you win, so you should certainly avoid using a solicitor for the claim. Claims can take anywhere from 3-9 months.

Good luck and please keep us updated.

grumpy_codger

francisgc11 said:

grumpy_codger said:

born_again said:

grumpy_codger said:

IMO, if it comes to a court action, it has to be against the bingo company, not Nationwide. Tell them to contact Nationwide directly to resolve the problem before you start court action.

ARN can help to trace the money, but doesn't prove that the withdrawal was processed correctly.

ARN proves that the payment was made by the company. No ARN, no payment.

Does it prove that the payment was sussessfully made to the OP's account?

I have been really busy so haven’t been able to keep on top of these comments, you seem to think you really know everything, and I’m not being rude in anyway shape or form but your comments are very passive aggressive, 

You quote a question, not a statement, and accuse me or thinking of knowing everything. 

in regard to your ‘ is it a fact ‘ yes it is a fact push notifications from a bank ? Like when you spend money it will come up where, how much and how many minutes ago etc. anyone that uses T will know exactly what I’m on about. But again pop your number over or if I can message you I will prove it. Stop jumping the gun like you know everything. Any bank can approve or decline any incoming and outgoing payments, for fraud etc etc. 

What I actually said was that I've never heard of a notification from a receiving bank 'approving' an incoming payment. Have you? And I do have an account with Nationwide, and I did use it for (matched) betting years ago. However, I can imagine a notification about an approved withdrawal (if you have your bingo site app installed).

Also I take it you have never seen a ‘ Forward Trace ‘ as the forward trace I have blatantly confirms ‘ request was processed successfully ’ and beside it the last 4 digits of my card number and the amount that was processed. Again thinking you know everything I can prove you wrong. Just tell me how to get this over to you and I will!

Again, that was a question, not a statement. Now, who is being aggressive? The customer was given some ARN. The customer's bank cannot trace it. My common sense suggests that the ball is in the bingo site's court, but my common sense can be mistaken.

Again in regard to your other comment where you’ve put the T withdrawal information ETA 9.2 , just to confirm it was my card, the only card I have ever used on the site so that information bares no relevance what so ever, if I had 2 cards and used one, I could withdraw to the other card no problem, I think if you register yourself an account it might bring you up to speed on things.

Well, somebody  suggested that you possibly provided wrong card details. I merely commented that it was unlikely and explained why. You are barking on the wrong tree.

In regard to the bingo site and nationwide investigating together, this is not a procedure that is possible due to GDPR, I have blatantly asked them to call each other and it’s not possible. If I could I would! 

I don't know about GDPR; pretty often it's red herring referred to by people knowing nothing about it - simply to fob a customer off. What I know is that bingo site owes you some money and you haven't received it. IMO, it makes more sense to sue the site than Nationwide.

If you buy something online and never receive it, it's the supplier who has to refund you and then deal with the carrier. You don't deal with the carrier (Visa in this case) and can sue the supplier. Then the supplier deals with the carrier.

Also to the ‘ IMO if it comes to court action ‘ comment, YES it does prove the withdrawal was processed successfully and the amount and to my card !!!! 

Well, you know better - even if it's just 4 digits out of 16. Good luck - with court actions and contacting Visa. 

The bingo site recommended court action as I’ve tried so hard, as well as register 2 complaints and no further ahead, they firstly said FOS, I declined that and they said only route would be court actionbecause legal experts are saying otherwise!

Hardly a surprise that they recommended this. They also recommended FOS first that has no powers over a gambling company. 

so whilst I appreciate your comments and trying to help, you really, really do think you know everything and you do not. If T have proved above and beyond it’s been processed successfully then why would I take them to court, it’s the bank that’s saying they can’t find anything and the solicitors advise I have documentary evidence of really contradicts what you are saying, unless you work as a lawyer or for the bank, I’m intrigued how you think you know so much because all these professionals seem to be contradicting you!! In the future stop jumping down everyone’s throats thinking your correct

It was a pleasure to speak to you!

born_again

grumpy_codger said:

born_again said:

grumpy_codger said:

IMO, if it comes to a court action, it has to be against the bingo company, not Nationwide. Tell them to contact Nationwide directly to resolve the problem before you start court action.

ARN can help to trace the money, but doesn't prove that the withdrawal was processed correctly.

ARN proves that the payment was made by the company. No ARN, no payment.

Does it prove that the payment was sussessfully made to the OP's account?

Only if it shows on the system. As it links into your account details.

born_again

francisgc11 said:

born_again said:

francisgc11 said:

Hello I was wondering if anyone can advise me on what to do please,

I withdrew £440 from ‘Britain’s biggest bingo site’ (not sure if I’m allowed to name them T******) late at night on the 14th June 2025, and the next day when I woke up on my front screen notifications it said Nationwide ‘ £440 T****** ‘ approved ‘ .When I went on to my account nothing was in there (usually within 2 hours any other time) so I left it a few days and then contacted T***** who confirmed all was processed fine as was showing on my bingo account - I was told to contact the bank via a complaint with the Aquirer Reference Number and the bank told me to wait so many days as VISA credits can take up to 15 working days, I waited a few days over that and then contacted the bank back with another complaint logged to investigate it, I was told still nothing so I went into branch with the ARN number instead of dealing with a very rude abrupt team over the phone - the branch could not find anything with the ARN number they said wait until Monday and the Bank Manager will be in and they’ll get her to email to confirm nothing showing, pending or received, they also asked me to ask T****** for a ‘ Forward Trace ‘ therefore I done that, Didn’t receive no communication but yesterday received proof of forward trace from T****** via there bank so went to the bank in person again with the ARN, Forward Trace proof and emails from T****** confirming multiple times it’s been processed successfully and left there accounts and has not bounced back, T****** noted that if the payment was successful there would not be an ARN to provide which makes sense, the bank manager was present and rung through to a few departments including the VISA team and said they still can not find nothing with the information given, she provided me with a hand signed headed letter confirming nothing been received. 

I have sufficient evidence from T****** to confirm they have made the payment, and nothing from Nationwide.

For the sake of £50 court fee I am looking to take Nationwide to small claims court to recover this money, as I’ve logged 2 complaints, provided a lot of evidence, about 6 phone calls and 3 branch visits later I’m no further ahead.

Am I right in saying it’s Nationwide who I take to court and not T******, I’m aware the funds come from T****** but they’ve done everything they are meant to do under the Payment Services Regulations 2017, they have gone above and beyond to help me I’ve been dealing with the Fraud and Risk Ops Manager within there business. 

Would it be best to go to Small claims court or Financial Ombudsman service? This has gone on to long now and affecting my mental health, I am aware of the seriously long time it takes FOS to even acknowledge complaints never mind finalise them. 

Does anyone have any other recommendations as I’ve hit a brick wall now and dumbfounded. 

I did seek legal advice via a solicitor who said that if I have ARN, Forward trace letter and emails that’s strong evidence to win in court but wanted £210 to review them documents, which is nearly 50% of the money, times I pay that and court fees I will be left with £180 . Which is pointless I can afford to right of £180 but not £440. - will the court expect me to go to FOS first? I’ve filled the paperwork out and no mention of that but don’t want to go to court and hit another brick wall.

Sorry if Im a tad confusing .

If ARN is not showing on Visa system, then the transaction has not been processed by the gambling company. Payments into bank accounts do not require approval, so that sounds like a message from gambling co.
 Which might explain why they are advising court action. In the hope the bank just stumps up.

TBH, & this may not apply to all banks. But access to Visa/Mastercard backend systems is strictly limited to staff that need it (costs per signon) So is usually limited to fraud & dispute teams who will need regular access.

Hello, no it was a ‘ approved ‘ from nationwide, I think people are mistaken the fact that the bank can decline or allow any incoming and outgoing payments, for whatever reason they like for example fraud etc, again if the payment was not processed there wouldn’t be an ARN number, also they mentioned FOS, not just court, I declined FOS due to the lengthy time and they said last option would be court then. 

Also just to confirm I think the fraud team did have a look because the second complaint, the lady was rather rude and didn’t really make sense but did mention fraud team, I said what why fraud team when no fraud has taken place, that makes sense as to why she said that now. 

Regardless she also spoke to VISA payments team and they said no payment either. 

People need to remember I have the full documentation showing it was successfully processed, the amount and too my card at said date and time. 

Banks can’t forge information and I’d be shocked if they was over the sake of £440. 

So in my opinion it lies with the bank as they’re failing there duties to find my monies. 

T does not just expect the bank to ‘ stump up ‘ but as they said it’s not right it’s my money weather it’s £4 or £440 it’s still my money. 

If you think FOS takes a long time, then you will be waiting even longer for courts to resolve. They are even longer waits.

Incoming payments do not require authorisation, so do not get blocked by banks. As the 1st they know is when it hits your account.

The gambling acc, does have your current card details & not a old stopped card does it?
If it is a old card, then the money could be sat in a internal suspense account. Waiting to be passed over or returned to retailer.

A retailer can invent a ARN (21 digits). Or even use a old one. If nationwide can not find it, then they do not have the payment. 


 I think people are mistaken the fact that the bank can decline or allow any incoming and outgoing payments, for whatever reason they like for example fraud 

Banks have a legal obligation to have card fraud detection systems, which do block payments (not incoming). This is based on known fraud patterns. There is a % limit on blocked/declined payments. If the genuine payments exceed this % then bank gets fined. 
Worked these systems, so know that you are sadly wrong on that point.