Back Billing And The Comedy Of Resolution With Octopus (Question Plus Mini Vent)

Joh_Flow

Hi everyone, I have been trying to find out if the Back Billing rules apply to Octopus Energy. I have been researching on Ofgem, CAB and other websites - but can't seem to find out if all energy companies mandatorily are signed to this, or if it is still voluntary for some. Does Octopus specifically have to follow the 12 month Back Billing rules ?

Bit of context : there have been repeated problems with consistency of bills over my last two properties (I rent). Both of these properties have been on smart meters, collect readings every half hour, and record monthly charges with Octopus once or twice a month. Bills have been provided monthly and I pay in full immediately. I have never had energy debt despite being on disability benefits. I have also had to question some oddities and received some money back previously. 

I am now get hacked off that it keeps happening. I honestly, can't trust my bills when they come through.

My account was in nicely in credit (because of said previous returns of money). I have now been back-billed from various periods outside of the back bill legislation, and as early as May 2023. All in one statement. Totally unexpected and non-discussed. The company have also wiped out all my credit (nearly £300) without seeking consent.

So, I raise a complaint (again). The customer service has been been utterly ridiculous. Agents that attach your complaint emails to you their strings, then ask you what you complaint is about, pieces of sent info. not being forwarded to in-house colleagues, company not following their own procedures, people asking you to screenshot info, because they can't be arsed reading stuff...(list goes on). And an allegation of a false (manual) reading being provided (asked for their evidence of that) and the properties are smart metered anyway (so irrelevant). Engaging so far has been stressful and a waste of my time and money. Can't wait for the 8 week deadlock so that I can raise with the Energy Ombudsman and receive some better support.

Anyway, mini rant over - does anyone have an answer to the top question.
Also are Octopus in trouble/trying to raise funds by back billing and clearing accounts ? Just wondered if this is widespread?

Thank you 

QrizB

Joh_Flow said:

Hi everyone, I have been trying to find out if the Back Billing rules apply to Octopus Energy. I have been researching on Ofgem, CAB and other websites - but can't seem to find out if all energy companies mandatorily are signed to this, or if it is still voluntary for some. Does Octopus specifically have to follow the 12 month Back Billing rules ?

To answer the question: all licensed suppliers are subject to Ofgem's back billing rules. Octopus are a licensed supplier, and so the back billing rules apply to them.

However, there's a lot of misunderstanding about what the back billing rules actually prohibit. They're designed to prevent bill shock, so you shouldn't be asked for new money to pay for any unbilled energy from more than 12 months before.

Joh_Flow said:

My account was in nicely in credit (because of said previous returns of money). I have now been back-billed from various periods outside of the back bill legislation, and as early as May 2023. All in one statement. Totally unexpected and non-discussed. The company have also wiped out all my credit (nearly £300) without seeking consent.

However, the rules permit suppliers to use existing bill credit for this purpose. Suppliers are also allowed to reclaim previous repayments. From what you've said, not only was your account in credit but you've also received repayments, which Octopus could legitimately ask for you to return.

So I think, from what you've described, Octopus haven't broken any rules.

Joh_Flow said:

Also are Octopus in trouble/trying to raise funds by back billing and clearing accounts ? Just wondered if this is widespread?

Octopus are the UK's biggest supplier of domestic electricity. No they're not in trouble. Yes there have been a few other recent threads about back billing, but no more than you'd expect for a supplier with 5 million customers.

WiserMiser

Joh_Flow said:

Bills have been provided monthly and I pay in full immediately.

Not a good idea: it's likely to cost you significantly more, probably around 7%.  You can pay Octopus by equal monthly direct debits (so-called Fixed DDs) or by monthly Variable DDs (on request) where you pay the whole bill in full each month.

MVDDs mean you don't have any problems or confusion caused by credit building up, although of course the bills will be higher in winter and lower in summer so you have to budget accordingly.

masonic

Their billing system automatically applies back billing rules, as I have found out to my benefit when they decided to recalculate 18 months worth of bills. If you check you'll probably find that the energy billed more than 12 months ago did not take you into a negative balance based on the credit on your account at that time. Otherwise the excess would have been written off by the system. 

Joh_Flow

Hello. I appreciate that I gave limited information in my post and thank you for your considered responses based on that. If I may respond collectively. Thank you for clarifying that the back billing rules do apply to Octopus (as a licensed supplier). The previous returns of money that contributed to my credit were reversal of a mistake made by the company two years ago (as I say repeated inaccuracies - they took close to £800 and I have to ring to find out what was going on, over £600 was sent back which became credit in my account). This arrived after the period mentioned in the back bill, so it would not create a buffer (as suggested). The reason I pay in full after bills is because (as Martin has raised) there are concerns with some companies about unreasonable amounts being asked in DD schedules. I am on disability benefits and money is tight, so paying just for what I use suits my eco ways and is agreed with the company. I also do not trust having any form of credit in my account at the moment due to irregularities that I would like someone impartial to look at (not limited to: repeated amount takings, a non-working gas account and non-response to bill provision/remedying, records being move around online since the complaint opened), credit being taken without warning (as described above). I agree with Martin's view that credit belongs to the customer once in the account. And that the company should not just help themselves without fair consultation. I do agree the account revision can go both ways with the company and it must be wonderful if something is raised and their investigation earns you a generous payback (nicely done!). In this case though, I was sent separate bills for the period mentioned in the back bill, so anything else is a second version and one that is beyond the 12 month cutoff. Bills were cleared at that time to leave a £0.00 balance just before leaving the last property. What was charged seemed fair for usage at the time. My account suggested that everything was tied up nicely. I believe communication records not fully represent the contact that I have had with the company and this is causing confusion. The way this stands at the moment, is that I have asked for a deadlock/final viewpoint letter and clarified my complaints (including how they have escalated due to poor customer service and how irregularities in my account have been witnessed). Date for cutoff will be 5th of August. I am hoping that the company will actually respond to the questions/queries that I have and we won't need to go to the Energy Ombudsman. All I have had so far is an apology for inconvenience and a recognition that the accounts are 'confusing'. I am tired at the moment, due to medical conditions and the idea of going to the EO feels big. But I will do if I have to.

Joh_Flow

Can anyone clarify if there are 'different rules' for back billing if money is taken directly from credit? R.E : Can that be done anytime? Or do the back bill rules also apply to credit amounts. Appreciating any knowledge on this. 

Qyburn

Joh_Flow said:

Can anyone clarify if there are 'different rules' for back billing if money is taken directly from credit? R.E : Can that be done anytime? Or do the back bill rules also apply to credit amounts. Appreciating any knowledge on this. 

Backbilling rules prevent them asking for out of pocket payment. They don't prohibit assigning existing credit.

MWT

Qyburn said:

Joh_Flow said:

Can anyone clarify if there are 'different rules' for back billing if money is taken directly from credit? R.E : Can that be done anytime? Or do the back bill rules also apply to credit amounts. Appreciating any knowledge on this. 

Backbilling rules prevent them asking for out of pocket payment. They don't prohibit assigning existing credit.

... they also allow the reversal of prior refunds from account credit.

Joh_Flow

Thank you can you direct me to where you have received this info from?

MWT

Joh_Flow said:

Thank you can you direct me to where you have received this info from?

I wish there was a single source for this level of detail, but it mostly comes from the way the Ombudsman has interpreted the principles in the Ofgem rule.

The basis is that the rule is there to avoid bill-shock, the Ombudsman considers that DD payments made to a supplier are there to pay for use, so once paid can be used for any energy consumed, even if not billed at the time or within 12 months.

Similarly the Ombudsman has ruled that refunds made from those payments can be reclaimed to use to cover previously unbilled energy. - personally I'd always challenge that one as occasionally you get an ombudsman that takes a contrary view. 

Joh_Flow

I think you are hitting of something important MWT - there seems to be a lot of grey areas. And a lot is down to looking at the whole picture behind someone's complaints. There are a few strands around this similar theme with slightly different nuances/understandings. There is a bill shock with any significant amount/any time someone removes money from an account - no matter whether it is by DD payments/credited (I wasn't paying by DD btw) Yes, no notice of any discrepancy until 2 years later and after the company had already taken the money out. They concocted a story about one false meter reading. But that doesn't stand when there are functioning smart meters and they say they check any odd readings against the general pattern within a short time frame. Even if there should be a decision that the back bill was legit (doubtful with the evidence I have) there is always the question of fairness to the consumer.