New Mortgage with no job

gotnodoshhelp

Hi all.

About 20 years ago I got a new mortgage when I had no job but up to 25% deposit. I used a mortgage advisor now retired or dead and all I had to do was sign a form declaring I could make monthly payment, irrespective of no income or proof of how I would make payments. 

Do this provision still exist ? I have been told a few months ago it doesn't but who knows. And if it doesn't is that a Government/legal decision or a banking policy ?

Regards

Graham

Hoenir

Post the GFC. The lending market was reviewed. No such market longer exists. 

MWT

gotnodoshhelp said:

Hi all.

About 20 years ago I got a new mortgage when I had no job but up to 25% deposit. I used a mortgage advisor now retired or dead and all I had to do was sign a form declaring I could make monthly payment, irrespective of no income or proof of how I would make payments. 

Do this provision still exist ? I have been told a few months ago it doesn't but who knows. And if it doesn't is that a Government/legal decision or a banking policy ?

Regards

Graham

Self-certified mortgages ended when they were banned by the FCA in 2009.

ACG

Im not asking you to incriminate yourself here...
These stopped before I became a broker so I never did any but I always wonder how people with no provable income were so confident they could pay a mortgage... 

Assuming nothing dodgy how did you manage it? Im just curious to see if there were any circumstances that were not iffy. 

amnblog

ACG said:

Im not asking you to incriminate yourself here...
These stopped before I became a broker so I never did any but I always wonder how people with no provable income were so confident they could pay a mortgage... 

Assuming nothing dodgy how did you manage it? Im just curious to see if there were any circumstances that were not iffy. 

Thousands of people who could not, or did not want to prove their incomes, paid their mortgages no problem.

Many of these mortgages that were labelled as (self cert) were 'Fast Track' where the Lender did not request sight of income proof for cases with 75% equity and good credit history.

Come the mortgage market review in 2012, the authorities cut these options from the market ensuring that income had to be declared to HMRC for it to be useful in supporting a mortgage application.

Less about mortgage risk and more about taxation.

Exodi

amnblog said:

ACG said:

Im not asking you to incriminate yourself here...
These stopped before I became a broker so I never did any but I always wonder how people with no provable income were so confident they could pay a mortgage... 

Assuming nothing dodgy how did you manage it? Im just curious to see if there were any circumstances that were not iffy. 

Thousands of people who could not, or did not want to prove their incomes, paid their mortgages no problem.

Many of these mortgages that were labelled as (self cert) were 'Fast Track' where the Lender did not request sight of income proof for cases with 75% equity and good credit history.

Come the mortgage market review in 2012, the authorities cut these options from the market ensuring that income had to be declared to HMRC for it to be useful in supporting a mortgage application.

Less about mortgage risk and more about taxation.

But your suggestion that thousands of people could not or did not want to evidence their income, that the authorities subsequently tightened the rules to support income declaration to HMRC, and that it was more about (dodging) taxation is kind of @ACG 's point where they ask if there were any circumstances that were not dodgy or iffy.

The only non-nefarious reason I can think of is distrust of banks (and authority in general) causing people to refuse to disclose personal information, even if everything was above board. We still see it today on this forum (people refusing to provide ID to open a bank account, etc).

ACG

amnblog said:

ACG said:

Im not asking you to incriminate yourself here...
These stopped before I became a broker so I never did any but I always wonder how people with no provable income were so confident they could pay a mortgage... 

Assuming nothing dodgy how did you manage it? Im just curious to see if there were any circumstances that were not iffy. 

Thousands of people who could not, or did not want to prove their incomes, paid their mortgages no problem.

Many of these mortgages that were labelled as (self cert) were 'Fast Track' where the Lender did not request sight of income proof for cases with 75% equity and good credit history.

Come the mortgage market review in 2012, the authorities cut these options from the market ensuring that income had to be declared to HMRC for it to be useful in supporting a mortgage application.

Less about mortgage risk and more about taxation.

@Exodi has sort of covered off my thoughts. But I dont want it to come across like I am assuming the worst. I had a client who became a golf pro at a golf club. In essence he bought an existing business with a guaranteed income (green fees, and a guaranteed retainer from the golf club) but no lender was happy to use more than the retainer until he had owned the business for 12 months. 

In that example, I can see a reason for self cert, nothing dodgy, just bad timing. But I cant imagine all self certs being for golf pros or similar. 

Strummer22

ACG said:

Im not asking you to incriminate yourself here...
These stopped before I became a broker so I never did any but I always wonder how people with no provable income were so confident they could pay a mortgage... 

Assuming nothing dodgy how did you manage it? Im just curious to see if there were any circumstances that were not iffy. 

OP's username (gotnodoshhelp) might signify something of their attitude to money; or, at the very least, the result of their attitude to money.

gotnodoshhelp

Or all other USERNAMES I tried were in use 

Hoenir

amnblog said:

ACG said:

Im not asking you to incriminate yourself here...
These stopped before I became a broker so I never did any but I always wonder how people with no provable income were so confident they could pay a mortgage... 

Assuming nothing dodgy how did you manage it? Im just curious to see if there were any circumstances that were not iffy. 

Thousands of people who could not, or did not want to prove their incomes, paid their mortgages no problem.

Many of these mortgages that were labelled as (self cert) were 'Fast Track' where the Lender did not request sight of income proof for cases with 75% equity and good credit history.

Come the mortgage market review in 2012, the authorities cut these options from the market ensuring that income had to be declared to HMRC for it to be useful in supporting a mortgage application.

Less about mortgage risk and more about taxation.

Totally about mortgage risk. Before 2012 all the US subprime lenders had left the UK market.  Even the infamous Lehman Brothers operated in the UK through Southern Pacific Mortgage Limited. This operation closing in 2008.  Post the GFC the membership of the Council of Mortgage Lenders had dropped from around a 150 to nearer a 100.  Much of this mortgage debt was simply sold off and run down. SMPL have eventually morphed into Acenden. 

amnblog

Hoenir said:

amnblog said:

ACG said:

Im not asking you to incriminate yourself here...
These stopped before I became a broker so I never did any but I always wonder how people with no provable income were so confident they could pay a mortgage... 

Assuming nothing dodgy how did you manage it? Im just curious to see if there were any circumstances that were not iffy. 

Thousands of people who could not, or did not want to prove their incomes, paid their mortgages no problem.

Many of these mortgages that were labelled as (self cert) were 'Fast Track' where the Lender did not request sight of income proof for cases with 75% equity and good credit history.

Come the mortgage market review in 2012, the authorities cut these options from the market ensuring that income had to be declared to HMRC for it to be useful in supporting a mortgage application.

Less about mortgage risk and more about taxation.

Totally about mortgage risk. Before 2012 all the US subprime lenders had left the UK market.  Even the infamous Lehman Brothers operated in the UK through Southern Pacific Mortgage Limited. This operation closing in 2008.  Post the GFC the membership of the Council of Mortgage Lenders had dropped from around a 150 to nearer a 100.  Much of this mortgage debt was simply sold off and run down. SMPL have eventually morphed into Acenden. 

Not in my view, the 2012 rules were about taxation dressed up as risk.