New Mortgage with no job

stripling

@Exodi
The only non-nefarious reason I can think of is distrust of banks (and authority in general) causing people to refuse to disclose personal information, even if everything was above board. We still see it today on this forum (people refusing to provide ID to open a bank account, etc).

Why is anything outside people's experience 'nefarious'? 

I got my very first mortgage as a self-certified mortgage because I was self-employed and didn't have 3 years accounts, I was a single-mum when it was DEEPLY unfashionable to be one (we were only having kids to claim benefits/council houses/trap men according to our lovely press 😂) and the law PERMITTING women to have mortgages without a male signature of approval (husband/father/sugar daddy?) had not that long changed.  

I bought a shell property (I knew it was structurally sound), moved in with toddler & borrowed futon and slept on the floor with a camping stove to cook on and over many years put every spare penny into completely revamping it. I grew a business and never missed a payment. 

No one would give someone like me a mortgage like that now.  My offspring pays huge amounts of rent to other people, way more than a mortgage payment would be but consistently paying £2000 a month rent without missing beat is not considered financial 'proof'...  It's nuts. 

Altior

stripling said:

@Exodi
The only non-nefarious reason I can think of is distrust of banks (and authority in general) causing people to refuse to disclose personal information, even if everything was above board. We still see it today on this forum (people refusing to provide ID to open a bank account, etc).

Why is anything outside people's experience 'nefarious'? 

I got my very first mortgage as a self-certified mortgage because I was self-employed and didn't have 3 years accounts, I was a single-mum when it was DEEPLY unfashionable to be one (we were only having kids to claim benefits/council houses/trap men according to our lovely press 😂) and the law PERMITTING women to have mortgages without a male signature of approval (husband/father/sugar daddy?) had not that long changed.  

I bought a shell property (I knew it was structurally sound), moved in with toddler & borrowed futon and slept on the floor with a camping stove to cook on and over many years put every spare penny into completely revamping it. I grew a business and never missed a payment. 

No one would give someone like me a mortgage like that now.  My offspring pays huge amounts of rent to other people, way more than a mortgage payment would be but consistently paying £2000 a month rent without missing beat is not considered financial 'proof'...  It's nuts. 

To be fair, you had income from (self) employment. The suggestion from the OP is that there is no income from working - 'New Mortgage with no job'

It worked out for you but I should imagine the odds of a default were pretty high when compared to someone/people who had a demonstrable history of salaried income, or extensive records of profit from self employment. 

It's obvious but the GFC was caused by lenders giving mortgages to people who did not have sufficient means to cover the liabilities, but applied for them as if they did, ergo self certified. And those likelier toxic loans hidden in with more robust ones. 

ACG

stripling said:

@Exodi
The only non-nefarious reason I can think of is distrust of banks (and authority in general) causing people to refuse to disclose personal information, even if everything was above board. We still see it today on this forum (people refusing to provide ID to open a bank account, etc).

Why is anything outside people's experience 'nefarious'? 

I got my very first mortgage as a self-certified mortgage because I was self-employed and didn't have 3 years accounts, I was a single-mum when it was DEEPLY unfashionable to be one (we were only having kids to claim benefits/council houses/trap men according to our lovely press 😂) and the law PERMITTING women to have mortgages without a male signature of approval (husband/father/sugar daddy?) had not that long changed.  

I bought a shell property (I knew it was structurally sound), moved in with toddler & borrowed futon and slept on the floor with a camping stove to cook on and over many years put every spare penny into completely revamping it. I grew a business and never missed a payment. 

No one would give someone like me a mortgage like that now.  My offspring pays huge amounts of rent to other people, way more than a mortgage payment would be but consistently paying £2000 a month rent without missing beat is not considered financial 'proof'...  It's nuts. 

You must be going back 30 years? 
Self employed applicants can get a mortgage with as little as 10 months trading now (but cant complete until the 12 months are up). 
You can get normal rates with 1 years accounts/self assessment. 

So in your situation, that would be easy enough to overcome now at normal rates without needing self cert. 

gotnodoshhelp

ACG said:

Im not asking you to incriminate yourself here...
These stopped before I became a broker so I never did any but I always wonder how people with no provable income were so confident they could pay a mortgage... 

Assuming nothing dodgy how did you manage it? Im just curious to see if there were any circumstances that were not iffy. 

Lodgers or tennants

ACG

Lodger income (using the rent a room scheme) allows you to earn up to £7,500 without paying tax. 
Above that it needs declaring. 

I doubt anyone is getting a mortgage with £7k a year income. 

poseidon1

ACG said:

Lodger income (using the rent a room scheme) allows you to earn up to £7,500 without paying tax. 
Above that it needs declaring. 

I doubt anyone is getting a mortgage with £7k a year income. 

The mortgage lender criteria can appear quite perverse at times.

When trying to remortgage with Barclays , they turned me down for £100k lending despite provable investment income of £75k annually from various sources.  However a few months later when the state pension kicked in they were more then happy to lend £55k solely on that source alone. Rationale was state pension is guranteed, but stock market and commercial property rental income are not.

ACG

poseidon1 said:

ACG said:

Lodger income (using the rent a room scheme) allows you to earn up to £7,500 without paying tax. 
Above that it needs declaring. 

I doubt anyone is getting a mortgage with £7k a year income. 

The mortgage lender criteria can appear quite perverse at times.

When trying to remortgage with Barclays , they turned me down for £100k lending despite provable investment income of £75k annually from various sources.  However a few months later when the state pension kicked in they were more then happy to lend £55k solely on that source alone. Rationale was state pension is guranteed, but stock market and commercial property rental income are not.

We have access to maybe 80+ lenders. 
Earlier this year I was far too confident about a case and I went to the only lender who would decline it because I never checked criteria. 

£800k property, £125k mortgage. Mr earned nearly  £200k a year doing bank work and his wife earned £35k a year. 
A building society that covers the nation... declined the case because it did not fit criteria. I called my account manager to ask if they are really going to turn down the case and to see if there is room for an exception to be made...

They declined the case! 

Its my fault not theirs. I should have checked their stance on bank income - his payslips were a bit all over the show as he did not submit his hours every week - ironically because he was loaded and didnt mind if he got paid 2-3 weeks late. 

Went to the next cheapest lender and they accepted it straight away. 

Who in their right mind turns down a case of less than 1x income at 15% LTV for a surgeon? In what world is that mortgage not getting paid? 

Not every lender is suitable for every applicant. You would likely have been fine with another lender.

poseidon1

ACG said:

poseidon1 said:

ACG said:

Lodger income (using the rent a room scheme) allows you to earn up to £7,500 without paying tax. 
Above that it needs declaring. 

I doubt anyone is getting a mortgage with £7k a year income. 

The mortgage lender criteria can appear quite perverse at times.

When trying to remortgage with Barclays , they turned me down for £100k lending despite provable investment income of £75k annually from various sources.  However a few months later when the state pension kicked in they were more then happy to lend £55k solely on that source alone. Rationale was state pension is guranteed, but stock market and commercial property rental income are not.

We have access to maybe 80+ lenders. 
Earlier this year I was far too confident about a case and I went to the only lender who would decline it because I never checked criteria. 

£800k property, £125k mortgage. Mr earned nearly  £200k a year doing bank work and his wife earned £35k a year. 
A building society that covers the nation... declined the case because it did not fit criteria. I called my account manager to ask if they are really going to turn down the case and to see if there is room for an exception to be made...

They declined the case! 

Its my fault not theirs. I should have checked their stance on bank income - his payslips were a bit all over the show as he did not submit his hours every week - ironically because he was loaded and didnt mind if he got paid 2-3 weeks late. 

Went to the next cheapest lender and they accepted it straight away. 

Who in their right mind turns down a case of less than 1x income at 15% LTV for a surgeon? In what world is that mortgage not getting paid? 

Not every lender is suitable for every applicant. You would likely have been fine with another lender.

The irony in my case is that I have been a Barclays customer for over 40 years and off and on a mortgage holder with them for 35 years.

Unthinkingly  i had thought my application would have been a slam dunk. 
I stayed with Barclays to avoid fees and costs of going elsewhere, and they were already the pre- existing mortgage holders on the property for the past 17 years. 

The stars should have been aligned for a straight forward new mortgage, but ignoring my very long past history with them, the underwriters apparently did not like what they saw by way of post retirement income until the advent of the state pension. 

My next mortgage will be equity release to avoid, all this nonsense in future.

ACG

If you were after additional money (not just a product transfer) it would need to go back through underwriting and it would need to fit criteria. If their criteria does not allow investment income (and in all honesty, I can understand their reasons for that) then it does not matter if you are with them for banking, mortgages and your investments. 


When I worked for RBS, I remember us granting a large amount of borrowing to a bloke who help a lot of shares in us. On paper he was worth a fortune, that was in 2006. 18 months later, his shares were worth peanuts. Appreciate yours in based on income rather than value and is probably more diverse. But the point remains its not a guaranteed or stable income. 

silvercar

ACG said:

Im not asking you to incriminate yourself here...
These stopped before I became a broker so I never did any but I always wonder how people with no provable income were so confident they could pay a mortgage... 

Assuming nothing dodgy how did you manage it? Im just curious to see if there were any circumstances that were not iffy. 

Renting out spare rooms, even if the amounts are above the rent a room scheme, income is income even if taxable.

Also consist income as self employed in non standard jobs eg influencers, poker players. Or even relatives paying the mortgage in a family members name. Overseas income can also be difficult.