Planning enforcement for window replacement… HELP!!!!

minirisks

I own a flat in an old building. The building is not listed, and it is not in a conservation area. However, it is registered as Oxford Historical Asset. In 2022, as both my bedroom windows cannot be closed properly, I decided to replace them. I asked Oxford Planning Department whether a planning permission was needed. The planning officer said no need. Then I asked her if there was requirement for materials or styles. The officer said she would suggest a like to like replacement, but she also recommended me to check with the landlord. As I am one of the landlords of the building, given the like to like replacement is not mandatory, I chose UPVC windows. Three years later, the council’s planning enforcement team accused me of not applying for permission to replace windows. They urged me to replace the current ones with timber Sash windows. I provided my correspondence with the planning officer, but they could not accept. The replacement of current windows with timber sash windows will leave me huge financial burden. I cannot sleep recent days. Anyone can help? 

Keep_pedalling

I would take it up with your councillor

elsien

What inclusion on the Oxford Heritage Asset Register means

The inclusion of a building or place on the Heritage Asset Register places no additional legal requirements or responsibilities on property owners over and above those already required for planning permission or building regulation approval.

https://www.oxford.gov.uk/oxford-heritage-asset-register/heritage-asset-register

You saying they won’t accept is not detailed enough. I’d be asking them to clarify the legal basis on which they can evidence that planning permission is needed for a building that is not listed, given the above. 

Emmia

minirisks said:

I own a flat in an old building. The building is not listed, and it is not in a conservation area. However, it is registered as Oxford Historical Asset. In 2022, as both my bedroom windows cannot be closed properly, I decided to replace them. I asked Oxford Planning Department whether a planning permission was needed. The planning officer said no need. Then I asked her if there was requirement for materials or styles. The officer said she would suggest a like to like replacement, but she also recommended me to check with the landlord. As I am one of the landlords of the building, given the like to like replacement is not mandatory, I chose UPVC windows. Three years later, the council’s planning enforcement team accused me of not applying for permission to replace windows. They urged me to replace the current ones with timber Sash windows. I provided my correspondence with the planning officer, but they could not accept. The replacement of current windows with timber sash windows will leave me huge financial burden. I cannot sleep recent days. Anyone can help? 

What do you mean by "landlord" are you a co-freeholder or are you a leaseholder?

When we replaced some windows last year, we went for a like for like (timber sash) window replacement. The freeholder was fine with any material as long as it was visually identical - so a UPVC sash (do they exist?) may have been fine but we couldn't have switched to a casement.

We went for replacement timber as I was concerned that UPVC or another material would look different, and the freeholder could require us to replace at our own cost. We also live in an old building not in a conservation area.

It's a bit late for you now but I wouldn't have run the risk of a different material for the windows, as this will be noticeable when you look at the other (original type) windows in the same building, but adjacent to your property.

Unfortunately I think you're going to have to reinstate windows to meet the original specification in terms of construction/materials etc.

It's going to be a bit galling, but if the reason for replacement was the fact they didn't open/close you could potentially have had the originals refurbished, rather than replaced (at a lower cost per window). We had some refurbished to fix this issue when others were replaced - they work great now.

HampshireH

If sounds like you have been given very poor advice when you first queried.

I'm not surprised if you have removed timber sash and replaced with upvc (hopefully not white ones) that they have now shown an interest.

Many planning departments want planning permission for change of material and style regardless of whether it is listed or in a conservation area or not for flats.

The "rules" vary from council to council but the majority will ask for planning from my experience for what it sounds like you have described. They do have a legal right.

Many even request it for straight forward like for like replacements and imo this is definitely just a money making exercise that is a waste of everyone's time.

If you have the evidence then I would suggest you go down the route of formal complaint and as above cc in your local Cllr 

minirisks

elsien said:

What inclusion on the Oxford Heritage Asset Register means

The inclusion of a building or place on the Heritage Asset Register places no additional legal requirements or responsibilities on property owners over and above those already required for planning permission or building regulation approval.

https://www.oxford.gov.uk/oxford-heritage-asset-register/heritage-asset-register

You saying they won’t accept is not detailed enough. I’d be asking them to clarify the legal basis on which they can evidence that planning permission is needed for a building that is not listed, given the above. 

They claim all flats need to ask for permission. However, I mentioned mine was a flat three years ago when I consulted the planning department 

minirisks

Emmia said:

minirisks said:

I own a flat in an old building. The building is not listed, and it is not in a conservation area. However, it is registered as Oxford Historical Asset. In 2022, as both my bedroom windows cannot be closed properly, I decided to replace them. I asked Oxford Planning Department whether a planning permission was needed. The planning officer said no need. Then I asked her if there was requirement for materials or styles. The officer said she would suggest a like to like replacement, but she also recommended me to check with the landlord. As I am one of the landlords of the building, given the like to like replacement is not mandatory, I chose UPVC windows. Three years later, the council’s planning enforcement team accused me of not applying for permission to replace windows. They urged me to replace the current ones with timber Sash windows. I provided my correspondence with the planning officer, but they could not accept. The replacement of current windows with timber sash windows will leave me huge financial burden. I cannot sleep recent days. Anyone can help? 

What do you mean by "landlord" are you a co-freeholder or are you a leaseholder?

When we replaced some windows last year, we went for a like for like (timber sash) window replacement. The freeholder was fine with any material as long as it was visually identical - so a UPVC sash (do they exist?) may have been fine but we couldn't have switched to a casement.

We went for replacement timber as I was concerned that UPVC or another material would look different, and the freeholder could require us to replace at our own cost. We also live in an old building not in a conservation area.

It's a bit late for you now but I wouldn't have run the risk of a different material for the windows, as this will be noticeable when you look at the other (original type) windows in the same building, but adjacent to your property.

Unfortunately I think you're going to have to reinstate windows to meet the original specification in terms of construction/materials etc.

It's going to be a bit galling, but if the reason for replacement was the fact they didn't open/close you could potentially have had the originals refurbished, rather than replaced (at a lower cost per window). We had some refurbished to fix this issue when others were replaced - they work great now.

I changed to UPVC sashes, but they insisted in timber sashes. I felt the advice they gave in the first instance was misleading. If they required planning permission three years ago, I would consider a secondary glazing or repair the windows. 

Emmia

minirisks said:

Emmia said:

minirisks said:

I own a flat in an old building. The building is not listed, and it is not in a conservation area. However, it is registered as Oxford Historical Asset. In 2022, as both my bedroom windows cannot be closed properly, I decided to replace them. I asked Oxford Planning Department whether a planning permission was needed. The planning officer said no need. Then I asked her if there was requirement for materials or styles. The officer said she would suggest a like to like replacement, but she also recommended me to check with the landlord. As I am one of the landlords of the building, given the like to like replacement is not mandatory, I chose UPVC windows. Three years later, the council’s planning enforcement team accused me of not applying for permission to replace windows. They urged me to replace the current ones with timber Sash windows. I provided my correspondence with the planning officer, but they could not accept. The replacement of current windows with timber sash windows will leave me huge financial burden. I cannot sleep recent days. Anyone can help? 

What do you mean by "landlord" are you a co-freeholder or are you a leaseholder?

When we replaced some windows last year, we went for a like for like (timber sash) window replacement. The freeholder was fine with any material as long as it was visually identical - so a UPVC sash (do they exist?) may have been fine but we couldn't have switched to a casement.

We went for replacement timber as I was concerned that UPVC or another material would look different, and the freeholder could require us to replace at our own cost. We also live in an old building not in a conservation area.

It's a bit late for you now but I wouldn't have run the risk of a different material for the windows, as this will be noticeable when you look at the other (original type) windows in the same building, but adjacent to your property.

Unfortunately I think you're going to have to reinstate windows to meet the original specification in terms of construction/materials etc.

It's going to be a bit galling, but if the reason for replacement was the fact they didn't open/close you could potentially have had the originals refurbished, rather than replaced (at a lower cost per window). We had some refurbished to fix this issue when others were replaced - they work great now.

I changed to UPVC sashes, but they insisted in timber sashes. I felt the advice they gave in the first instance was misleading. If they required planning permission three years ago, I would consider a secondary glazing or repair the windows. 

Our freeholder gave advice on "visually identical" - wandering round our local area, with other buildings of a similar age indicated that a UPVC window wasn't likely to be identical enough... Especially on a building where everything else is a wooden sash.

You can challenge it via your councillor etc. but I'd be readying myself for being unsuccessful, and needing to replace.

Section62

minirisks said:

elsien said:

What inclusion on the Oxford Heritage Asset Register means

The inclusion of a building or place on the Heritage Asset Register places no additional legal requirements or responsibilities on property owners over and above those already required for planning permission or building regulation approval.

https://www.oxford.gov.uk/oxford-heritage-asset-register/heritage-asset-register

You saying they won’t accept is not detailed enough. I’d be asking them to clarify the legal basis on which they can evidence that planning permission is needed for a building that is not listed, given the above. 

They claim all flats need to ask for permission. However, I mentioned mine was a flat three years ago when I consulted the planning department 

Which might suggest they are seeing it as a permitted development issue - flats don't have PD rights for the type of alterations which could be PD for houses.

When the planning officer gave you the advice 1) was it in writing, and 2) did the communication have a rider along the lines of not relying on it and to make an application if you are in doubt?

If the council stick to their guns and insist you have to change the windows again then your best chance of mimimising your loss might be to make a complaint that the council's advice was misleading, and by acting on it in good faith you've incurred this loss.  Obviously the success of this will depend on exactly what was said, whether you can prove it, and whether the council left themselves wriggleroom by caveating the comments they made.  You could start the process now by making a formal written complaint to the council (check how their 3-stage complaints process works).

That you've been given incorrect information wouldn't necessarily mean you could keep the windows, but it may delay the issuing of an enforcement notice and/or give you some financial help towards rectification.

minirisks

Thanks everyone. I have written evidence from the last planning officer who says “planning permission is not needed.” There is no rider in her email. I’ve complained to the council and written to the councillor. 

twopenny

But you did initially say that no permission is needed if you replaced like for like.
You didn't do that. You changed wood for uPVC , is that right?
The appearance and reflections are quite different from single glazed and that affects street appearance.

I've seen it happen here where uPVC has been installed and they have been told to return it to match the original. Huge who-ha but they were given a fair time to replace