UC, Occupational Pension, and Capital

ThriftyAberdeen

Thanks all, so with £14k in capital and £4000 for a pension this month she is still technically below the £16k to cause the UC to cease. By next month hopefully the DWP will have announced the overpayment which she can clear immediately from that £4k and therefore keep her below the £16k and therefore she has nothing to worry about in terms of claims ending etc (which would be stress for her given her disabilities).

We will just have to await decision maker regarding deprivation of capital - it was all debt except for the car which was PCP in family name. We can hope we can demonstrate the need for this and that it was reasonable - PCP was ending and there was a requirement to either refinance the car or return. Daughter was looking to return to get something cheaper but MIL needed a higher up car (and also larger boot for walking aid) etc and as daughter and I have been supporting in car (she is highest rate mobility) we feel we can argue this was reasonable (and are prepared to transfer car into MILs name although hopefully they don’t feel the need for that). The car payment was £6k so by all accounts wasn’t extravagant and is in line with demand (she can’t rely solely on taxis etc). Anyone any experience with this and what I should prepare for myself for?

peteuk

I tried to post earlier but the web issued continued. 

Payment of debt is fine, but regardless of the reasion behind the payment of the car, this is in my mind likel#y to be classed as DOC.  As youve said its £6K...

ThriftyAberdeen

Thanks - some others have said that buying a car at £6k wouldn't be classed as DoC if it could be outlined as reasonable. I guess the case will be based on whether or not we can justify this as a reasonable expense - it is was at the end of its PCP agreement and we were looking at reducing our spend and therefore returning the car but it is needed to support her care (post stroke / on highest level of mobility). She does not want to sacrifice her mobility component for a car as we feel that would be unfair to her when it comes to insurance costs / road tax, especially when occasionally she does rely on taxis (buses are a no go due to distance from bus stop to home).

peteuk

ThriftyAberdeen said:

Thanks - some others have said that buying a car at £6k wouldn't be classed as DoC if it could be outlined as reasonable. I guess the case will be based on whether or not we can justify this as a reasonable expense - it is was at the end of its PCP agreement and we were looking at reducing our spend and therefore returning the car but it is needed to support her care (post stroke / on highest level of mobility). She does not want to sacrifice her mobility component for a car as we feel that would be unfair to her when it comes to insurance costs / road tax, especially when occasionally she does rely on taxis (buses are a no go due to distance from bus stop to home).

Paying off the car if it was the claimants - Not DOC
Buying a new car cause old car is on its last legs - if it was the claimants - Not DOC

Giving away £6K from a back dated pension payment when she had over £6K in the bank, for her daughter to pay off her debt...

If it waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck - its a duck.   Although a reasonable suggestion, its not the act as such its the optics has she paid her daughter £6K to remain under the £16K limit to remain on UC. 

If she is post stroke with a high level of mobilty then apply for PIP and then a mobility vehicle.  That way the daughter can return the car at the end at the PCP. 

As you say its upto a DM - all I am saying is when the DM says its DOC dont be suprised.  

ThriftyAberdeen

Thanks Pete, we understand it’s a risk, she has PIP (or the Scottish equivalent which is ADP) and has the highest level of each. She cannot drive and is entirely dependent on her daughter for transport. She hasn’t converted mobility element to a motability car specifically to ensure a level of independence from the daughter (we didn’t think it right that she sacrificed the full amount for her access to the car).

peteuk

ThriftyAberdeen said:

Thanks Pete, we understand it’s a risk, she has PIP (or the Scottish equivalent which is ADP) and has the highest level of each. She cannot drive and is entirely dependent on her daughter for transport. She hasn’t converted mobility element to a motability car specifically to ensure a level of independence from the daughter (we didn’t think it right that she sacrificed the full amount for her access to the car).

Which is what its therefore. 

You didnt want to scarefice £77 a week, but happy to risk loosing UC for a number of years.  If the DM decises the £6K is DOC, then regardless of the level of capital, she will be classed as having that £6K, until UC deem it spent.   Loosing UC also means a knock on effect of loosing other benefits.   

Its horses for courses to be honest.  

ThriftyAberdeen

Hi Pete,

I get what you’re saying however she never used her mobility allowance for the car as she was raising two young daughters as a single mother with disabilities and to be honest she was having to watch her spending very carefully and asking her to sacrifice that payment to allow her older daughter to care for his didn’t seem ethical.

She is in no way looking to evade UC ceasing, if it does, it does and she will accept that. I’m not sure what other benefits it would impact for her other than council tax reduction and housing benefit which would be affected by the £16k anyway? She took the pension lump sum to clear her debts and she will live on the remainder in her usual way until such time she can ethically claim UC again. The reality is she would have bought the car irrespective of the UC situation as it is needed for her care which we can demonstrate.  All I’m trying to do is understand to the best of my ability what the future of the next 6 months or so will look like for her so I can help her budget accordingly. 

peteuk

UC opens other benefits - youve mentioned two already Housing and CT reduction (which she may also qualfy for irrispective of UC) but theres the winter fuel allowance.   Equally things like Legal Aid, Funeral costs can also be disconunted or available if claiming UC. 

I totally get  how stowic the older generation can be, and given her life understsand her struggle.  Id love for the DM to say its not a problem, but you cant 100% guarantee that.  Shes done something, which is understandable but without fully seeing the impact it has on the bigger picture.  

Can she survive without UC? If so how long for?.  

ThriftyAberdeen

I’m hopeful she will never need legal aid, but I guess never say never, and likewise with winter fuel allowance she will just accept the trade off in the meantime. She’s never been work shy and as a single parent used to work 60 hour weeks to provide to her kids so she’s not just wanting to suck out of the system, she completely gets whilst she has money she won’t be entitled to support.

In terms of surviving, is the reality not that she will have the savings to cover her bills until such time they’re gone so providing she doesn’t do anything suspicious or extravagant or out of the ordinary then I assume the savings will keep her going until they’re exhausted at which point she can claim again? The car was £6k so if they assume she still has those savings “notionally” when all her other savings are exhausted then she’ll be at £6k of savings notionally and entitled to full UC again (albeit she won’t actually have that £6k). 

I hope she will be ok but the reality is either the car needed bought or she traded in her mobility for a car (but which then comes with risks of losing if her ADP/PIP is renewed and she drops down to lower mobility (which may well happen once she’s in sheltered / supported accommodation in a few years), at least this way she has access to the car until dies (with us committing to the upkeep).

ThriftyAberdeen

Also genuinely thanks for your views Pete, it’s a fresh perspective which I’m always welcome of. Just trying to do right by her.