First time buyer, help me decide.

Smalltownhypocrite

Are you investing in being a landlord?

If not why are you even looking at flat 2? 

Do you have any idea how expensive evictions can be?

Don't say the landlord promised the tenant will leave by x date as that means absolutely nothing. It is the tenants home and tenant has rights and doesn't have to move out just because the landlord choose to sell the property. If the landlord could so easily get them to move out then they would do it before listing/selling.

Catonthemoon

[Deleted User] said:

Martico said:

Clearly tenants in situ is a concern, but that's been discussed on another thread.
I'd be worried about the high ground rent on property 2, as well as the unspecified service charge.
Is there a lift in either property? Maintenance could be high when needed. Top floor could mean floor 3 or floor 26
How many properties are in each block?
 

Sorry I should clarify, the £133 is the ground rent + service charge combined per month. Both flats are only 3 stories high, no lift. There's 6 flats in each block.

If in Flat 1, you’re in the middle (there’s a flat on either side of you), then surely that means there are 3 flats on the top floor! If 3 stories high…9 flats??

[Deleted User]

Catonthemoon said:

[Deleted User] said:

Martico said:

Clearly tenants in situ is a concern, but that's been discussed on another thread.
I'd be worried about the high ground rent on property 2, as well as the unspecified service charge.
Is there a lift in either property? Maintenance could be high when needed. Top floor could mean floor 3 or floor 26
How many properties are in each block?
 

Sorry I should clarify, the £133 is the ground rent + service charge combined per month. Both flats are only 3 stories high, no lift. There's 6 flats in each block.

If in Flat 1, you’re in the middle (there’s a flat on either side of you), then surely that means there are 3 flats on the top floor! If 3 stories high…9 flats??

That's the flat, as you can see a neighbour on either side, no neighbours to the front or rear, 1 below. Bear in mind I said 6 flats per block, but blocks are connected together so in reality there are like 24 flats? in this 1 joined building.

[Deleted User]

Never mind I just looked on google maps and the door that leads into the building with my flat has 9 other flat numbers on the door, so yes it's a block of 9 as you rightly said. 

RHemmings

QrizB said:

RHemmings said:

QrizB said:

RHemmings said:

...I'm aware of there being things that people claim to be smaller heat pumps that can be window mounted or even portable, using air bricks, but don't know if they are good options or not.
E.g.

Single-hose portable heat pumps achieve a COP of about 2.5; you get 2.5x as much heat out as the electricity you put in. So, with single-rate electricity currently around 25p/kWh, you're paying 10p/kWh for heat.

They're also rather noisy, 60dB or more. It's a constant drone rather than conversation or music and slightly easier to get used to but it's still intrusive. I can sleep with my portable AC running but my wife can't so it gets turned off at bedtime.

Permanently installed heat pumps with two ducts (or better still, a split system) achieve COPs of 3-4 (6-8p/kWh) and are far less noisy. "Window" units are popular in the US but pretty rare here, due to the prevalence of casement windows rather than sash or sliding ones.

Storage heaters using dual-rate electricity can deliver heat for as little as 6-9p/kWh, silently.

Gas is around 7-8p/kWh once you allow for boiler efficiency.

There's an entire Heat Pumps sub-forum over on Energy if you want to discuss this in detail!

Thanks. That's enough information for me. I didn't know that storage heaters can be competitive with gas for cost. Though, I note here: https://www.checkatrade.com/blog/cost-guides/storage-heating-costs/  that it's said that heat can only be stored for 12 hours, which means that if someone is arriving home from work about 8pm, that significantly less stored heat will be available.

Not sure where Checkatrade have got their info from. Storage heaters installed in the past decade or so should hold their heat through the day.

Here's an article from Which? that isn't trying to sell you anything. Some of the prices seem a bit optimistic (try getting an electrician to do anything for £70 these days) but the facts seem OK.

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/home-heating-systems/article/home-heating-systems/storage-heaters-aokoz3G2Em9L

Thank you. I couldn't find anything in the article which says that modern storage heaters will keep their heat throughout the day. I did notice mention of 'high heat retention casing'. In the 'cons' in the article, it says:

Cons

• Usually pricier than gas heating.
• Basic models can overheat rooms when they release excess heat.
• Your home might be coldest in the evening because the storage heater has often released most of its stored heat by then.

(My emphasis)

Though, the article discusses both old and new storage heaters. 

I also notice one picture of a storage heater in the Which article which looks vaguely in the ballpark of the one the OP posted for Flat 1, which doesn't have support underneath it. It's only attached to the wall. I think it was mentioned above that a storage heater would typically have support underneath as it may have bricks in it. I hope it's not a case of the lighter old ones having asbestos. 

Tabieth

I know nothing about storage heaters but, having being miserable (and poor!) in two different electric heated flats, never again. I’d never consider electric only unless it was an incredibly efficient eco home. 

[Deleted User]

Tabieth said:

I know nothing about storage heaters but, having being miserable (and poor!) in two different electric heated flats, never again. I’d never consider electric only unless it was an incredibly efficient eco home. 

From my basic research there are different types of electric heaters, ones that heat up over night and slowly release the heat during the day, and ones that you just turn on like a regular heater, the latter are the ones that are most expensive. 

However I work nights and sleep during the day when it's warmer anyway. So I only really need the heating on from 8am - 11am when I am awake, then on my 2 nights off I need the heating on from about 9pm - 3am, then again from about 8am - 11am when I go to bed. 

Also I'm not really the type of person to whack the heating on for 12 hours a day, I'm happy to wear a warm jumper and socks. Last year during the winter months I was only using 4 hours of gas heating per night in my flat.

QrizB

RHemmings said:

.I also notice one picture of a storage heater in the Which article which looks vaguely in the ballpark of the one the OP posted for Flat 1, which doesn't have support underneath it. It's only attached to the wall. I think it was mentioned above that a storage heater would typically have support underneath as it may have bricks in it. I hope it's not a case of the lighter old ones having asbestos. 

That's not a storage heater and I can't explain why Which? chose that photo.

It's a very common design of wall-hung convector heater. Here's a similar one:

https://allaboutelectrics.co.uk/products/newlec-nlph750-panel-heater-thermostatic-splashproof-slimline-0-75kw

You'll notice it's plugged isn't normal for storage heaters (and shouldn't be encouraged for panel heaters either).

Tabieth

[Deleted User] said:

Tabieth said:

I know nothing about storage heaters but, having being miserable (and poor!) in two different electric heated flats, never again. I’d never consider electric only unless it was an incredibly efficient eco home. 

From my basic research there are different types of electric heaters, ones that heat up over night and slowly release the heat during the day, and ones that you just turn on like a regular heater, the latter are the ones that are most expensive. 

However I work nights and sleep during the day when it's warmer anyway. So I only really need the heating on from 8am - 11am when I am awake, then on my 2 nights off I need the heating on from about 9pm - 3am, then again from about 8am - 11am when I go to bed. 

Also I'm not really the type of person to whack the heating on for 12 hours a day, I'm happy to wear a warm jumper and socks. Last year during the winter months I was only using 4 hours of gas heating per night in my flat.

How much fine temperature control do you have? My last flat was electric and underfloor heating throughout. Any changes I made to the thermostat would take at least 4-6 hours to come into effect which made things very difficult. I also don’t like a too-warm environment and prefer a cooler living area. But not being able to turn the heating on for ten minutes to take the edge off was a real problem. 

I genuinely know nothing about storage heaters. But if one can control the rate they release heat during the day, that may work. (Although, having worked nights myself, the last thing I’d want when I was sleeping during the day would be a warm home!) But my experience of electric-only properties is overwhelmingly negative and I’d never live in one again. 
. 

QrizB

If you want feedback on heating, the Energy board is the place to ask. At the moment I'm just making a mess in your thread; there's more important things when comparing flats than the ins and outs of different electric heat sources and the vagaries of online articles.

I'll stop talking about heaters now!