First time buyer, help me decide.

user1977

Catonthemoon said:

Flat 1 - neighbouring flats on both sides; you must also have one to the rear? That would mean it’s adjoined to 4 other flats (2 to the sides, 1 to the rear & 1 below), unless I’m missing something!

Why must they have a flat to the rear? That sounds an unusual layout.

[Deleted User]

Catonthemoon said:

Flat 1 - neighbouring flats on both sides; you must also have one to the rear? That would mean it’s adjoined to 4 other flats (2 to the sides, 1 to the rear & 1 below), unless I’m missing something!

Flat 2 - none to the sides. 1 to the rear & 1 below, so adjoined to 2 other flats. 

Peace & quiet seems to be an important consideration for you; if the details above are correct, then flat 2 reduces any neighbour problems/issues by 50%. 

Living in flats is always going to be a bit of a lottery & you won’t know what your neighbours are like until you move in!

Not quite, so obviously a flat has 6 points of contact, 2 of he walls lead out into the open air outside, the other 2 walls connect to adjoining flats, it's the top floor so no roof, and obviously someone below me. That's 3 points of contact. 

The other flat has only 1 point of contact, the person below me because it's a corner flat with the only other wall connecting to the hallway outside, which create a kind of air gap so between me and the other flat so I don't count that as a point of contact. 

Yes noise is a high priority for me, and by choosing Flat 1, I an opening myself up to 2 additional noise sources which could be a problem. 

But as long as they're not excessively loud (like my current unemployed play music all day) neighbours, I'll be ok as my own TV will drown out their TV. 

They're flats, I'm not expecting them to be as quiet as a detached house, I just want normal reasonable neighbours

RHemmings

Are there any options for upgrading the heating in Flat 1 to be something more cost-efficient? I'm aware that getting permission to install a full heat pump in a flat can be problematic. I'm aware of there being things that people claim to be smaller heat pumps that can be window mounted or even portable, using air bricks, but don't know if they are good options or not. 

E.g.



I'm thinking that if the electric heating for Flat 1 is expensive  but otherwise it seems the better option, then what can be done...

user1977

Bear in mind modern flats tend to be well-insulated, so the heating requirements may be minimal.

QrizB

RHemmings said:

...I'm aware of there being things that people claim to be smaller heat pumps that can be window mounted or even portable, using air bricks, but don't know if they are good options or not.
E.g.

Single-hose portable heat pumps achieve a COP of about 2.5; you get 2.5x as much heat out as the electricity you put in. So, with single-rate electricity currently around 25p/kWh, you're paying 10p/kWh for heat.

They're also rather noisy, 60dB or more. It's a constant drone rather than conversation or music and slightly easier to get used to but it's still intrusive. I can sleep with my portable AC running but my wife can't so it gets turned off at bedtime.

Permanently installed heat pumps with two ducts (or better still, a split system) achieve COPs of 3-4 (6-8p/kWh) and are far less noisy. "Window" units are popular in the US but pretty rare here, due to the prevalence of casement windows rather than sash or sliding ones.

Storage heaters using dual-rate electricity can deliver heat for as little as 6-9p/kWh, silently.

Gas is around 7-8p/kWh once you allow for boiler efficiency.

There's an entire Heat Pumps sub-forum over on Energy if you want to discuss this in detail!

ExEstateAgent

Does flat 1 have a shared freehold? 

What is the actual ground rent on flat 2? It's a separate charge to the service charge so should be stated on its own, not lumped together. 

How do you know when or if the tenants are vacating? 

20122013

[Deleted User] said:

QrizB said:

[Deleted User] said:

They're storage heaters I think 

Storage heaters are full of bricks and almost always have feet to take their weight rather than being wall hung.

That heater doesn't have feet, not any sign of a fused spur (tho' the photo is not great). You need to check but I suspect it's direct convector.

Here's another party cut off photo



Either way if the heating gets too expensive to run I'll probably just buy one of those fancy oil filled heaters from currys, It's only a flat so I only need it in the living room really and bedroom an hour before bed and I'm golden.

1.

They do not look like (night) storage heaters (SH), SH contains bricks inside so the depth would be at least be 1/3 than the images above. Also, the SHs should be cheaper to run at least SH seems to retain the heat for longer than the electric heater even if SH looks older. I  know this as I was silly and had listened to the electrician (who charges a lot) to replace them with electric heaters when the SH was working perferctly.

2. Potential resell value. I am not sure whether you have checked to see how the property value doing and how long it takes to sell. 

RHemmings

QrizB said:

RHemmings said:

...I'm aware of there being things that people claim to be smaller heat pumps that can be window mounted or even portable, using air bricks, but don't know if they are good options or not.
E.g.

Single-hose portable heat pumps achieve a COP of about 2.5; you get 2.5x as much heat out as the electricity you put in. So, with single-rate electricity currently around 25p/kWh, you're paying 10p/kWh for heat.

They're also rather noisy, 60dB or more. It's a constant drone rather than conversation or music and slightly easier to get used to but it's still intrusive. I can sleep with my portable AC running but my wife can't so it gets turned off at bedtime.

Permanently installed heat pumps with two ducts (or better still, a split system) achieve COPs of 3-4 (6-8p/kWh) and are far less noisy. "Window" units are popular in the US but pretty rare here, due to the prevalence of casement windows rather than sash or sliding ones.

Storage heaters using dual-rate electricity can deliver heat for as little as 6-9p/kWh, silently.

Gas is around 7-8p/kWh once you allow for boiler efficiency.

There's an entire Heat Pumps sub-forum over on Energy if you want to discuss this in detail!

Thanks. That's enough information for me. I didn't know that storage heaters can be competitive with gas for cost. Though, I note here: https://www.checkatrade.com/blog/cost-guides/storage-heating-costs/  that it's said that heat can only be stored for 12 hours, which means that if someone is arriving home from work about 8pm, that significantly less stored heat will be available. But, that they may be a price-efficient solution if someone frequently works from home. 

Returning to the thread, depending on the OP's lifestyle, storage heaters are not the negative for Flat 1 that I thought they might be. And, electric-only flats in general aren't the money pit I thought they might be. 

QrizB

RHemmings said:

QrizB said:

RHemmings said:

...I'm aware of there being things that people claim to be smaller heat pumps that can be window mounted or even portable, using air bricks, but don't know if they are good options or not.
E.g.

Single-hose portable heat pumps achieve a COP of about 2.5; you get 2.5x as much heat out as the electricity you put in. So, with single-rate electricity currently around 25p/kWh, you're paying 10p/kWh for heat.

They're also rather noisy, 60dB or more. It's a constant drone rather than conversation or music and slightly easier to get used to but it's still intrusive. I can sleep with my portable AC running but my wife can't so it gets turned off at bedtime.

Permanently installed heat pumps with two ducts (or better still, a split system) achieve COPs of 3-4 (6-8p/kWh) and are far less noisy. "Window" units are popular in the US but pretty rare here, due to the prevalence of casement windows rather than sash or sliding ones.

Storage heaters using dual-rate electricity can deliver heat for as little as 6-9p/kWh, silently.

Gas is around 7-8p/kWh once you allow for boiler efficiency.

There's an entire Heat Pumps sub-forum over on Energy if you want to discuss this in detail!

Thanks. That's enough information for me. I didn't know that storage heaters can be competitive with gas for cost. Though, I note here: https://www.checkatrade.com/blog/cost-guides/storage-heating-costs/  that it's said that heat can only be stored for 12 hours, which means that if someone is arriving home from work about 8pm, that significantly less stored heat will be available.

Not sure where Checkatrade have got their info from. Storage heaters installed in the past decade or so should hold their heat through the day.

Here's an article from Which? that isn't trying to sell you anything. Some of the prices seem a bit optimistic (try getting an electrician to do anything for £70 these days) but the facts seem OK.

https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/home-heating-systems/article/home-heating-systems/storage-heaters-aokoz3G2Em9L

20122013

OP:  as they are both top floor flats. Have you check who owns the roof, ie if there is damage / leak / pest in the roof who pays  to sort them out? if the owner is responsible does the owner have to get permission to have scaffolding etc and is there additional cost such as admin fees ?  

Also, if the leak has caused damage to the property/ flat who pays for the repair ? can it be claim via the building insurance (part of the Service charge) if so, what is the excess? and who pays the excess, if the roof is owned by the freeholder, see whether they pay the excess, also check if your neighbour claims insurance, because your flat has a leak etc do you have to pay their excess and vice versa. A lot to think about but good to know before hand.