Opening new stocks and share ISA as POA is proving impossible and is a disgrace

bennyuk · 2 July at 10:52PM

My father has dementia and I have POA and have been managing his accounts since 2020. Managing EXISTING accounts is fine, but I'm finding it impossible to open a new ISA.

Background: My dad is now in a care home, paying £1700 per week. He has around £500k which is enough for about 5 years. He has accounts at Lloyds which includes a cash ISA but not a stocks&shares ISA. Lloyds don't seem to be able to open a stocks and shares ISA for me as POA.

I want to open a S&S ISA to get a money market ETF to get approx 5%, as the Cash ISAs are going down in returns, and there is talk of cash ISA limits being reduced.

Q1. Has anyone had experience of opening a new S&S ISA as POA? (I've seen many say it's possible but none that have actually done it)

Q2. If it is possible, how would I open an account if the donor is living in a care home? He has no valid forms of ID (passport, driving license etc), pays no utility bills, bank accounts all reference me as the main address.

It's looking like my dad's savings are going to be stuck in a normal savings account paying full tax. It just doesn't seem fair that banks don't seem to account for POAs wanting to get best investment options.

Has anyone managed to successfully navigate this issue?

Ben

dunstonh · 2 July at 11:22PM

Lloyds don't seem to be able to open a stocks and shares ISA for me as POA.

Not unexpected. Their offering is a basic robo.

I want to open a S&S ISA to get a money market ETF to get approx 5%, as the Cash ISAs are going down in returns, and there is talk of cash ISA limits being reduced.

you have missed the boat for 5% now.

Q1. Has anyone had experience of opening a new S&S ISA as POA? (I've seen many say it's possible but none that have actually done it)

yes.

It's looking like my dad's savings are going to be stuck in a normal savings account paying full tax. It just doesn't seem fair that banks don't seem to account for POAs wanting to get best investment options.

Banks are not the best places to go to for S&S ISAs. Its not about fairness. Its not their core business and they generally offer lite and restricted options.

masonic · 3 July at 6:22AM

Cash ISA rates may be falling, but so are returns from money market funds. Some cash ISAs invest in money market funds (MoneyFarm, CMC Invest), so a S&S ISA isn't necessarily required. Have you tried the likes of Hargreaves Lansdown (being known for good customer service).

Over a 5 year horizon, the difference in returns is not likely to be very significant (if measured in additional weeks of care) compared with savings options that are more readily available to him. Lack of documentation to prove ID and address could be a problem anywhere, so perhaps it will be a struggle even using cash ISAs and conventional savings accounts. It may be necessary to try a variety of providers as they will all differ on requirements and whether they fall back to needing physical ID documents in your specific case.

Hal17 · 3 July at 7:36AM

I found the same problem, in the end I just went with fixed cash ISA's.

wmb194 · 3 July at 8:55AM

bennyuk said:

My father has dementia and I have POA and have been managing his accounts since 2020. Managing EXISTING accounts is fine, but I'm finding it impossible to open a new ISA.

Background: My dad is now in a care home, paying £1700 per week. He has around £500k which is enough for about 5 years. He has accounts at Lloyds which includes a cash ISA but not a stocks&shares ISA. Lloyds don't seem to be able to open a stocks and shares ISA for me as POA.

I want to open a S&S ISA to get a money market ETF to get approx 5%, as the Cash ISAs are going down in returns, and there is talk of cash ISA limits being reduced.

Q1. Has anyone had experience of opening a new S&S ISA as POA? (I've seen many say it's possible but none that have actually done it)

Q2. If it is possible, how would I open an account if the donor is living in a care home? He has no valid forms of ID (passport, driving license etc), pays no utility bills, bank accounts all reference me as the main address.

It's looking like my dad's savings are going to be stuck in a normal savings account paying full tax. It just doesn't seem fair that banks don't seem to account for POAs wanting to get best investment options.

Has anyone managed to successfully navigate this issue?

Ben

Have you looked at stockbrokers? They're the logical place to look for S&S Isas; it looks like AJ Bell might be able to do it but lack of ID could be a problem:

"If you have an attorney or a deputy with lawful authority to act on your behalf, they can manage your AJ Bell account(s) for you. To do this, they need to open an AJ Bell account of their own (if they don't already have one). Then, they should complete and return our legal representative form."

https://www.ajbell.co.uk/faq/can-someone-else-place-deal-me#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20an%20attorney,return%20our%20legal%20representative%20form.

Albermarle · 3 July at 12:25PM

It's looking like my dad's savings are going to be stuck in a normal savings account paying full tax.

Not sure of the logic of this statement.
If you can not add £20K to an S&S ISA, then you can still add £20K to a cash ISA.
So your tax position on interest/returns would be the same either way.

As far as I can see the investment platform 'Fidelity' allows you to open an ISA with them if you have LPA.
As mentioned these types of platforms are probably a better bet than a bank .
Obtaining External Power of Attorney | Fidelity

However when the BoE base rate next reduces the return from money market funds ( and easy access savings accounts) will also drop.

gilesco · 3 July at 3:05PM

wmb194 said:

bennyuk said:

My father has dementia and I have POA and have been managing his accounts since 2020. Managing EXISTING accounts is fine, but I'm finding it impossible to open a new ISA.

Background: My dad is now in a care home, paying £1700 per week. He has around £500k which is enough for about 5 years. He has accounts at Lloyds which includes a cash ISA but not a stocks&shares ISA. Lloyds don't seem to be able to open a stocks and shares ISA for me as POA.

I want to open a S&S ISA to get a money market ETF to get approx 5%, as the Cash ISAs are going down in returns, and there is talk of cash ISA limits being reduced.

Q1. Has anyone had experience of opening a new S&S ISA as POA? (I've seen many say it's possible but none that have actually done it)

Q2. If it is possible, how would I open an account if the donor is living in a care home? He has no valid forms of ID (passport, driving license etc), pays no utility bills, bank accounts all reference me as the main address.

It's looking like my dad's savings are going to be stuck in a normal savings account paying full tax. It just doesn't seem fair that banks don't seem to account for POAs wanting to get best investment options.

Has anyone managed to successfully navigate this issue?

Ben

Have you looked at stockbrokers? They're the logical place to look for S&S Isas; it looks like AJ Bell might be able to do it but lack of ID could be a problem:

"If you have an attorney or a deputy with lawful authority to act on your behalf, they can manage your AJ Bell account(s) for you. To do this, they need to open an AJ Bell account of their own (if they don't already have one). Then, they should complete and return our legal representative form."

https://www.ajbell.co.uk/faq/can-someone-else-place-deal-me#:~:text=If%20you%20have%20an%20attorney,return%20our%20legal%20representative%20form.

My wife has an AJ Bell stocks and shares ISA, which I pretty much opened online for her. I don't have POA, but she filled in a form to delegate investment decisions for her. There is another form for regular withdrawals. Withdrawals must go to linked bank account which will need to be in the ISA holders name. But you can probably access that with your POA status.

In short - should be easy to set up at AJBell.

masonic · 3 July at 7:00PM

Albermarle said:

It's looking like my dad's savings are going to be stuck in a normal savings account paying full tax.

Not sure of the logic of this statement.
If you can not add £20K to an S&S ISA, then you can still add £20K to a cash ISA.
So your tax position on interest/returns would be the same either way.

As far as I can see the investment platform 'Fidelity' allows you to open an ISA with them if you have LPA.
As mentioned these types of platforms are probably a better bet than a bank .
Obtaining External Power of Attorney | Fidelity

However when the BoE base rate next reduces the return from money market funds ( and easy access savings accounts) will also drop.

Presumably under the assumption that the cash ISA allowance will be reduced before the next contribution can be made.

cockerWalker · 15 July at 12:21PM

I had correspondence with InvestEngine customer services earlier this year where they told me that I could open a stocks and shares ISA using POA. I haven't done so as circumstances changed.

Bobziz · 16 July at 1:50PM

If it were me I wouldn't bother. The difference between putting £20k in an ISA or a taxable account equates to about half a day's care fees per year.

Johnjdc · 16 July at 7:30PM

What makes you think a Money Market Fund will pay 5% with interest rates expected to be around 3.75% by year end? Subtract the management fee and the platform fee and you're likely better off in an ISA.