Council Tax

StillWorkingAt70

My problem doesn't seem to fit any other thread I've found and Google just goes off at a tangent.
In April 2023 my mother went into a care home leaving her house unoccupied. The council told us CT wouldn't payable from that date. In Jan 24 my brother and I (both POAs for our mother) decided to rent out the property for a short term. I reported this to Calderdale Council and told them that the incoming tenant would pay the CT for the 5 month period Jan 24 to May24.
In March 24 our mother died and again I reported this to Calderdale and filled in the form that lets everyone concerned know about the death.
At the end of May the tenant moved leaving the house completely empty as agreed. Again I let Calderdale know and they acknowledged they were aware of the situation. They did not offer any advice regarding further payment of CT and in fact sent me a zeroed account. I subsequently received various other bills all asking for CT payment for the full year!
In Feb 25 the house was sold and in conversation with Calderdale they said that because someone was living in the house at the date of our mothers death, CT was payable for the whole year. Had they said this to me in the first place we wouldn't have taken tenants on as all the rent money was now to go on paying the CT! We didn't find this out until April 25 by which time the estate had been wrapped up, the bank account closed and the money paId out to the beneficiaries.
Calderdale are still saying that the estate owes the money and we are saying that there is no longer is an estate and certainly no money. I have read online that executors are not liable to pay from personal funds and Calderdale are, at this moment, thinking about this. For full disclosure I should say that my brother and I are also the beneficiaries although I don't think that has any bearing on the matter.
Any thoughts anyone?

p00hsticks

StillWorkingAt70 said:

Calderdale are still saying that the estate owes the money and we are saying that there is no longer is an estate and certainly no money. I have read online that executors are not liable to pay from personal funds 

It's up to the executors to ensure that all debts owed by the estate are settled before the estate is distributed.
I think the point about executors not being liable to pay from personal funds relates to the period when funds still need to be liquidated from the estate - for example to pay things like utility bills prior to a property being sold.

In my view the council are correct in saying that as the property was occupied at the time your mother died then there's no entitlement  Class F exemption and council tax is due from the period it became occupied until it was sold, and that the money should have been paid by the executors from the proceeds of the proeprty sale before distributing the estate to the beneficiaries.  

saajan_12

StillWorkingAt70 said:

In Jan 24 my brother and I (both POAs for our mother) decided to rent out the property for a short term. I reported this to Calderdale Council and told them that the incoming tenant would pay the CT for the 5 month period Jan 24 to May24.
In March 24 our mother died and again I reported this to Calderdale and filled in the form that lets everyone concerned know about the death.
At the end of May the tenant moved leaving the house completely empty as agreed. Again I let Calderdale know and they acknowledged they were aware of the situation. They did not offer any advice regarding further payment of CT and in fact sent me a zeroed account. I subsequently received various other bills all asking for CT payment for the full year!
In Feb 25 the house was sold and in conversation with Calderdale they said that because someone was living in the house at the date of our mothers death, CT was payable for the whole year. Had they said this to me in the first place we wouldn't have taken tenants on as all the rent money was now to go on paying the CT! ?

Well this is part of the research needed when becoming landlords. Once the mum was in care AND the house was tenanted, it was no longer her main home, so her death is irrelevant to the house CT. While it feels extreme in your situation where the tenancy was relatively short, in general this is a reasonable rule because otherwise people could nominate random homes to be free of CT even once moved. Its also not the council's responsibility to explain the what ifs (what if the teannt moves out, what if mum dies, what if mum moves back,) they barely explain the CT for the actual situation. 

The CT would indeed be due from the date the tenants moved in, until the house is sold. You could have gotten another tenant, or sold it earlier. 

StillWorkingAt70 said:

We didn't find this out until April 25 by which time the estate had been wrapped up, the bank account closed and the money paId out to the beneficiaries.
Calderdale are still saying that the estate owes the money and we are saying that there is no longer is an estate and certainly no money. I have read online that executors are not liable to pay from personal funds and Calderdale are, at this moment, thinking about this. For full disclosure I should say that my brother and I are also the beneficiaries although I don't think that has any bearing on the matter.
Any thoughts anyone?

Per the above, the CT was indeed payable by the owner ie mum, which now becomes a debt of the estate. If it wasn't, there's two avenues here:
- the beneficiaries who shouldn't have gotten the money should now pay it back to the estate.
- the executors should have checked all liabilities were covered before distributing funds. If they failed to do that, then the damages might be claimed from them personally (eg if the beneficiaries can't pay it back)

Keep_pedalling

I am afraid as executors you have made rather a hash of this. Presumable you and your sibling are both executors and residuary beneficiaries so it is down to the both of you to pay off the estate creditors. If you are not residual beneficiaries then as executors you are on the hook here unless the residual beneficiaries pay back the over payment to back to the executors.

StillWorkingAt70

Thank you all fior the comments. I would just say that with my exec hat on, when Calderdale had told me there would be no more charges and I had a zero invoice from them, It seemed reasonable to go ahead on that basis.
Anyway, we'll see what happens and if we have to pay then so be it. One more thing, if you can't expect the very people administrering the process to be knowledgeable, honest and open about it, then who can you trust?

ReadySteadyPop

StillWorkingAt70 said:

Thank you all fior the comments. I would just say that with my exec hat on, when Calderdale had told me there would be no more charges and I had a zero invoice from them, It seemed reasonable to go ahead on that basis.
Anyway, we'll see what happens and if we have to pay then so be it. One more thing, if you can't expect the very people administrering the process to be knowledgeable, honest and open about it, then who can you trust?

Exactly, councils are happy to rake in the CT, they should be employing people who can explain the legalities and liabilities in detail to anyone who needs explanation.

lincroft1710

If ever there are problems understanding exactly whether CT is due or not, always ask to speak to a Senior Revenues Officer (or similar). They should know the answers.


Clearly in this case there was confusion by Calderdale as they didn't realise your late mother's property had ceased to be her place of residence at the date of her passing.

anselld

Perhaps it is just me but I can't see how "a whole year" is due ...

   Tenant Paid from Jan 24 to end of May 24

   House sold Feb 25

... so maximum liability for OP is June24-Feb25, ie 9 months.

Bigphil1474

My understanding is that his Mum died in March 2024, so I think the whole year refers to April 2023 to March 2024 as she was in a care home from April 2023 and got an exemption on the basis that it was her main residence?   

OP, I think it was reasonable for you to assume there was no bill at the time, but council's can make errors, so I think they are right to correct that error. If the two of you were the sole and equal beneficiaries, then you would be liable for the bill equally in my opinion. When I did my dads estate a couple of years ago, we got 6 months exemption after he died but it took another 6 months to sell the house, so we had to pay 6 months CT from the estate. Fortunately we found out before all the money was dished out.