Migrating from ESA to UC after receiving backpayment

MrHeisenberg

I've been calling the ESA helpline number to see if I need to 'report a change of circumstances', and with a view to getting them to confirm how much of the backpayment has been spent, and just to cover myself should I be slightly over the limit. Tried twice, and on both occasions the call just strangely terminated after waiting around 1.5 hours. Incredibly stressful.

MrHeisenberg

Eventually managed to get through to someone via the ESA helpline. I mentioned that I am not completely sure of the formula to use in regards to how much of the backpayment has been spent, and that I am a little worried that I may have inadvertently gone over the £6K threshold. He didn't really tell me what the correct formula is, but he said that I "should be fine" (not sure how he knows that if he can't say what the correct formula is), but he will forward the enquiry to the "benefits centre", and let them know that I am going to be sending them some bank statements. Seemed slightly evasive, but I suppose they are probably not trained on issues such as this. He provided a postal address, and said that I should include a cover letter expressing my concerns. I am going to send them my last 3 bank statements, and explain that my health has been poor.

I suspect that it could take weeks or months for the DWP to get back to me on this, which means that I am still left with the issue of what to enter into the UC online form. My thinking is to use the £10K figure, and then create a UC journal entry immediately afterwards saying that figure is a very rough estimate, as I am waiting for the ESA benefits centre to confirm that I am below the £6K threshold. Is it possible to create journal entries of that kind?

Spoonie_Turtle

What will ultimately matter for UC is your capital on the last day of your Assessment Period. 

I know you want to get the answers right to the questions at the start of the claim but don't tie yourself in knots, and definitely don't miss your deadline (28 days after starting the claim form).

If it later turns out you put in an incorrect figure, that can be sorted out, but you do not want to run the risk of losing any transitional protection from your managed migration.

To be frank you actually can't trust DWP to get it right (they managed to get my UC review wrong even though my situation is pretty simple: disregard COL payments and income each AP), you might need to seek help from e.g. the CAB to get it all straightened out, especially if DWP do come back to you saying you had a significant overpayment.

Robbie64

Send copies of your bank statements (or printed versions from the bank's website) and not the originals (if you get the statements through the post) as you may need a copy to send to UC when you make your claim.

MrHeisenberg

Spoonie_Turtle said:

What will ultimately matter for UC is your capital on the last day of your Assessment Period. 

I know you want to get the answers right to the questions at the start of the claim but don't tie yourself in knots, and definitely don't miss your deadline (28 days after starting the claim form).

If it later turns out you put in an incorrect figure, that can be sorted out, but you do not want to run the risk of losing any transitional protection from your managed migration.

To be frank you actually can't trust DWP to get it right (they managed to get my UC review wrong even though my situation is pretty simple: disregard COL payments and income each AP), you might need to seek help from e.g. the CAB to get it all straightened out, especially if DWP do come back to you saying you had a significant overpayment.

Many thanks.

Well, that's worrying.

Do I need to provide financial details once a month? I should be placed in the LCRWA group, so I was hoping that they wouldn't harass me in any respect.

I am worried that this is going to be an ongoing conundrum too, as I understand that the backpayment continues to be disregarded in terms of capital:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1230/regulation/10A

Yes, that is all very true. I would lose the Severe Disability Premium (SDP) I currently get, but I understand that that erodes with time, though, which I think is part of the government's cynical ploy to slowly cut people's benefits. 

I tried calling the CAB UC Migration Notice helpline a few times today, and I just ended up getting a voice message saying that no one was available, which isn't very good.

Another concern is that this sentence is subject to interpretation:

"How much do you have in backdated benefit payments, in pounds and pence?"

That could also be interpreted as "How much did you receive in backdated benefit payments, in pounds and pence?" It is not all that clear.

So perhaps what I could do is add a journal entry afterwards saying that I wasn't clear on that question, so I provided the figure for the total backpayment that I received.

How soon can I start creating journal entries?

I suppose, as they seem a bit erroneous, my worst fear is that they suspend my claim or something like that.

MrHeisenberg

Robbie64 said:

Send copies of your bank statements (or printed versions from the bank's website) and not the originals (if you get the statements through the post) as you may need a copy to send to UC when you make your claim.

True that. Will do.

MrHeisenberg

Looks like I can create journal entries as soon as I finish the "to-dos" according to this statement when I log in:

"You cannot use your journal until you have completed your to-dos."

Spoonie_Turtle

MrHeisenberg said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

What will ultimately matter for UC is your capital on the last day of your Assessment Period. 

I know you want to get the answers right to the questions at the start of the claim but don't tie yourself in knots, and definitely don't miss your deadline (28 days after starting the claim form).

If it later turns out you put in an incorrect figure, that can be sorted out, but you do not want to run the risk of losing any transitional protection from your managed migration.

To be frank you actually can't trust DWP to get it right (they managed to get my UC review wrong even though my situation is pretty simple: disregard COL payments and income each AP), you might need to seek help from e.g. the CAB to get it all straightened out, especially if DWP do come back to you saying you had a significant overpayment.

Many thanks.

Well, that's worrying.

Do I need to provide financial details once a month? I should be placed in the LCRWA group, so I was hoping that they wouldn't harass me in any respect.

…

I tried calling the CAB UC Migration Notice helpline a few times today, and I just ended up getting a voice message saying that no one was available, which isn't very good.

Another concern is that this sentence is subject to interpretation:

"How much do you have in backdated benefit payments, in pounds and pence?"

…

How soon can I start creating journal entries?

I suppose, as they seem a bit erroneous, my worst fear is that they suspend my claim or something like that.

The important thing is to get your claim up and running. 

(If you don't have any underlying contribution-based ESA entitlement then if your ir-ESA ends and you have a gap before claiming UC, you would have to have another WCA and would lose out on 3 months' of the LCWRA element, as well as any transitional protection.)

As long as your claim is open then any mistakes can be sorted out.  Do not wait for this to all be cleared up before submitting your claim!

You can start sending journal messages as soon as you've submitted your claim, I think.  And I completely agree the question is ambiguous - par for the course with DWP, I'm afraid.  (It is scary to think how many people are having extra deductions for savings because DWP are using their overall totals instead of separating capital and income.)

I can understand fearing they might suspend the claim, but what seems to be happening when things aren't all in place by the end of the first assessment period is people are getting payments based on the information in the UC system, then when it gets updated and sorted the payments are recalculated - mostly it turns out that UC has underpaid, and when it's all straightened out people get paid what they're owed as a backpayment.  (It's usually things like missing off a housing element, missing transitional protection, deducting too much for capital, that kind of thing.  I guess the main situation where UC overpays is if people haven't declared savings, or if they've not declared a non-dependant for a housing deduction, or wages information hasn't gone through from HMRC to UC.)

And if it comes to it and they were to suspend your claim, it would then be reinstated once it's all sorted.  But you need to have an open claim to be entitled to payments.

Re: providing financial details every month, only if your capital (i.e. savings that are taken into account) fluctuate above or below a multiple of £250 above £6,000 by the end of an AP.

MrHeisenberg

Spoonie_Turtle said:

MrHeisenberg said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

What will ultimately matter for UC is your capital on the last day of your Assessment Period. 

I know you want to get the answers right to the questions at the start of the claim but don't tie yourself in knots, and definitely don't miss your deadline (28 days after starting the claim form).

If it later turns out you put in an incorrect figure, that can be sorted out, but you do not want to run the risk of losing any transitional protection from your managed migration.

To be frank you actually can't trust DWP to get it right (they managed to get my UC review wrong even though my situation is pretty simple: disregard COL payments and income each AP), you might need to seek help from e.g. the CAB to get it all straightened out, especially if DWP do come back to you saying you had a significant overpayment.

Many thanks.

Well, that's worrying.

Do I need to provide financial details once a month? I should be placed in the LCRWA group, so I was hoping that they wouldn't harass me in any respect.

…

I tried calling the CAB UC Migration Notice helpline a few times today, and I just ended up getting a voice message saying that no one was available, which isn't very good.

Another concern is that this sentence is subject to interpretation:

"How much do you have in backdated benefit payments, in pounds and pence?"

…

How soon can I start creating journal entries?

I suppose, as they seem a bit erroneous, my worst fear is that they suspend my claim or something like that.

The important thing is to get your claim up and running. 

(If you don't have any underlying contribution-based ESA entitlement then if your ir-ESA ends and you have a gap before claiming UC, you would have to have another WCA and would lose out on 3 months' of the LCWRA element, as well as any transitional protection.)

As long as your claim is open then any mistakes can be sorted out.  Do not wait for this to all be cleared up before submitting your claim!

You can start sending journal messages as soon as you've submitted your claim, I think.  And I completely agree the question is ambiguous - par for the course with DWP, I'm afraid.  (It is scary to think how many people are having extra deductions for savings because DWP are using their overall totals instead of separating capital and income.)

I can understand fearing they might suspend the claim, but what seems to be happening when things aren't all in place by the end of the first assessment period is people are getting payments based on the information in the UC system, then when it gets updated and sorted the payments are recalculated - mostly it turns out that UC has underpaid, and when it's all straightened out people get paid what they're owed as a backpayment.  (It's usually things like missing off a housing element, missing transitional protection, deducting too much for capital, that kind of thing.  I guess the main situation where UC overpays is if people haven't declared savings, or if they've not declared a non-dependant for a housing deduction, or wages information hasn't gone through from HMRC to UC.)

And if it comes to it and they were to suspend your claim, it would then be reinstated once it's all sorted.  But you need to have an open claim to be entitled to payments.

Re: providing financial details every month, only if your capital (i.e. savings that are taken into account) fluctuate above or below a multiple of £250 above £6,000 by the end of an AP.

Bloody hell, this is overwhelmingly stressful.

What do they expect people to do in the first 3 months? That's really shocking.

Will just use the £16K figure, and explain that I wasn't clear on the question, and so I used the total amount that I received.

Yes, one can submit journal entries pretty soon according to this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPJoe14OV8o

Not sure whether or not to raise it as a "service issue" or not though.

That's somewhat relieving regarding submitting financial details every month.

I will try and press ahead with this tonight.

Yamor

HillStreetBlues said:

kaMelo said:

But that would not be correct, as explained in this thread because your balance dropped to £6800 in 2023, £6800 is the maximum amount you can declare as backpay that you still hold.

If wanting to calculate it 100% correctly the capital would actually be less than that.
The £6,800 money in the bank would be made up of both income and capital. If OP receives £1175 benefits the actual capital would be made up of  £5625 capital & £1175 income to get the total monies of £6,800.

I doubt the DWP would got into that much detail or some even know how to calculate it correctly,

I don't agree.

If the lowest the bank account went down to was £6,800, then that could all be capital. Anything spent to get down to that amount could have been income, even if the income was received a day earlier. (Although normally it is beneficial to say that the income isn't spent immediately, there is nothing to stop a claimant saying the opposite.)