Maths Q on how many shares to sell.

Numbersup

I wonder if  anyone can  help me out with a 'formula'  please .Not being blessed at all with a mathematical mind,  I'm floundering  with trying to work out how many  SMT shares to sell without going over the yrs CGT allowance.  Basically I made  a 5k purchase in each of   2014, 2016 ,2019 at an average price of   737.65 per share for a total of  3612 shares .

 (  I noticed  that  the first purchase 'id' it as  'ordinary share 25p' and the last two said 'ordinary share 5p'.-- I seem to remember something about  a revaluation at the time and blurb said values would stay the same , but not sure if it makes a difference  in this particular working out ? 

Anyway,  then in July 2020,  I sold   (Ord share 5p)  2667 shares  @ 937.6465  with comm&levy£12.95 (and paid a small amount of  cgt  ) 

I cant see the way  to design a formula which (if necess) takes into account  the apparent share value from 25p -5p change , or one when  a sale is involved, but I can follow a formula if there is one  .  (I did put all the dates and figurework  to AI out of curiosity to see what it came up with ,   but basically it said the numbers I presented didnt compute ,it told me about pooling the costs,   and  then gave me pages to HMRC  advice etc -which was too general. )  Thankful for any help or advice.

InvesterJones

Number of shares to sell = Remaining CGT allowance / (Current price - Average purchase price)

wmb194

Numbersup said:

I wonder if  anyone can  help me out with a 'formula'  please .Not being blessed at all with a mathematical mind,  I'm floundering  with trying to work out how many  SMT shares to sell without going over the yrs CGT allowance.  Basically I made  a 5k purchase in each of   2014, 2016 ,2019 at an average price of   737.65 per share for a total of  3612 shares .

 (  I noticed  that  the first purchase 'id' it as  'ordinary share 25p' and the last two said 'ordinary share 5p'.-- I seem to remember something about  a revaluation at the time and blurb said values would stay the same , but not sure if it makes a difference  in this particular working out ? 

Anyway,  then in July 2020,  I sold   (Ord share 5p)  2667 shares  @ 937.6465  with comm&levy£12.95 (and paid a small amount of  cgt  ) 

I cant see the way  to design a formula which (if necess) takes into account  the apparent share value from 25p -5p change , or one when  a sale is involved, but I can follow a formula if there is one  .  (I did put all the dates and figurework  to AI out of curiosity to see what it came up with ,   but basically it said the numbers I presented didnt compute ,it told me about pooling the costs,   and  then gave me pages to HMRC  advice etc -which was too general. )  Thankful for any help or advice.

Are you certain of the number of shares you still own? There was a 5 for 1 share split on 30/06/14. This explains the change from 25p to 5p shares: was a new certificate issued? Or are you looking at these data online e.g., via a broker?

The last dividend was 1.6p per share paid 13/12/24. You say that you haven't bought or sold any shares recently; you can divide what you received by £0.016 to work out the number of shares.

(LSE:SMT = Scottish Mortgage IT)

ColdIron

Basically:

If you bought 1,000 shares at £10 each you have £10,000. If you bought in tranches you would need to calculate the weighted average cost per share

If they increased to £15 per share that's £5 profit or gain per share

So £3,000 allowance divided £5 is 600 shares

In practise when doing this for real you would include any costs incurred, transaction costs to buy and sell, stamp duty etc to reduce the gain but that's the general idea

Any other sales don't affect your cost of acquisition so you can ignore them

JamesRobinson48

Looks like OP has gone through all this before in another thread.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80673752#Comment_80673752

wmb194

JamesRobinson48 said:

Looks like OP has gone through all this before in another thread.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80673752#Comment_80673752

Oops. I probably shouldn't say anything but I don't think they accounted for the 5 for 1 share split in the capital gains calculation. 

Did the OP not receive a replacement certificate for the 25p shares: 471 * 5 = 2,355 shares?

Numbersup

Flipping heck ,  thanks! Genuine mistake - It had completely gone out of my head that Id  asked on here about it before . ( by way of explanation,after years of caring, lost OH a few months  after that  post ,  so didnt actually get round to selling anything , and now, brain  even less mathematically able  than usual , doubled with rubbish memory!)     I see I didnt mention the  share revaluation  in first post, I rather think I may not   even have noticed. Ill re introduce myself to the posts and gratefully take it all in again  later thanks! 

Just for the  record  the figures were all off the contract notes  and on the online acc  now its showing  that  there are  3012 shares . Considering I bought  3612  and sold  2667  leaving  945 ,  I presume   reinvested dividends must account for the difference . 

wmb194

***This doesn't account for the reinvested dividends the OP now states they made. Current holding 3012 so I think an additional 183 shares from dividends***

£4969.05 / (471 * 5) = £2.11  *Accounts for 5 for 1 split*
£5001.23 / 2158 = £2.32 
£4998.85 / 983 = £5.09 

Section 104 holding = 5496 shares, total cost £14,969.13, avg cost per share £2.723641

Current share balance should be: (471 * 5) + 2158 + 983 - 2667 = 2,829 shares

Current base cost: 2829 * £2.723641 = £7,705.18 

Current market value: 2829 * £10.225 = £28,926.53

From link to previous thread:

wmb194

Numbersup said:

Flipping heck ,  thanks! Genuine mistake - It had completely gone out of my head that Id  asked on here about it before . ( by way of explanation,after years of caring, lost OH a few months  after that  post ,  so didnt actually get round to selling anything , and now, brain  even less mathematically able  than usual , doubled with rubbish memory!)     I see I didnt mention the  share revaluation  in first post, I rather think I may not   even have noticed. Ill re introduce myself to the posts and gratefully take it all in again  later thanks! 

Just for the  record  the figures were all off the contract notes  and on the online acc  now its showing  that  there are  3012 shares . Considering I bought  3612  and sold  2667  leaving  945 ,  I presume   reinvested dividends must account for the difference . 

No, the bulk of the difference is from the 5 for 1 share split - 471 * 5. See my post above.

Do you have the details of the dividend reinvestments? Cost and number of shares.

Numbersup

Thanks everyone . Oh my gosh Im hoping I  haven't  opened a can of worms  -   The values showing on the HL site this afternoon were --  cost £15669.93    and current value  £30,647.10   !!       .     Who works out all the figures to present , is it HL or SMT?   Re the divi details, Ill have to try and find them ,  as for the  new shares cert,  ditto, I havent a clue , but I do remember thinking at the time  that there was no need to  check them as I couldnt imagine them getting it wrong!     Think Ill have a trawl through all the paperwork  tonight and see what I can find.   

wmb194

Numbersup said:

Thanks everyone . Oh my gosh Im hoping I  haven't  opened a can of worms  -   The values showing on the HL site this afternoon were --  cost £15669.93    and current value  £30,647.10   !!       .     Who works out all the figures to present , is it HL or SMT?   Re the divi details, Ill have to try and find them ,  as for the  new shares cert,  ditto, I havent a clue , but I do remember thinking at the time  that there was no need to  check them as I couldnt imagine them getting it wrong!     Think Ill have a trawl through all the paperwork  tonight and see what I can find.   

Ah, okay, If you hold them with Hargreaves Lansdown there won't be any certificates so don't worry about that. Or did you have certificates originally and then lodge them with HL? I'm wondering because HL's indicated cost looks far too high: did someone give HL the number?

HL takes the current indicated share price from the LSE.

https://www.londonstockexchange.com/stock/SMT/scottish-mortgage-investment-trust-plc/company-page