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Buying a home to live in that has a tenant in situ need advice
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If there’s anything left in the flat when you get to the point of being about to exchange, you can get the seller to confirm it is all theirs and whether it’s going to be removed at completion or included in the sale. If you don’t want it, then insist it’s removed by completion. But, you probably can’t pick and choose which items to keep and which ones you want removed!All this needs to go through the solicitor so it’s included in the contract. But, you are miles better off than with an owner occupied property, where there are no end of stories about sheds, garages and lofts being left stuffed full of junk. At least, the property should be mostly empty by the time contracts are exchanged.No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?0
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SneakySpectator said:saajan_12 said:SneakySpectator said:RAS said:SneakySpectator said:RAS said:Why can't you get a mortgage longer than 25 years? 30+ is pretty normal now.
Inflation will eat into the cost of your repayments within say 5 years. It'd be reasonable to expect to clear a 35 year deal in 25 years.lincroft1710 said:SneakySpectator said:RAS said:Why can't you get a mortgage longer than 25 years? 30+ is pretty normal now.
Inflation will eat into the cost of your repayments within say 5 years. It'd be reasonable to expect to clear a 35 year deal in 25 years.
Trying to buy a tenanted property is not a sensible idea, the vendor is seemingly offloading their property portfolio but for whatever reason is unable to get the tenant to leave.
So I'm looking at 2 months of conveyancing before the section 21 even gets issued, then 2 months notice for that, then if they refuse to leave another few months, then court orders, repossession order etc. I was "assured" by the EA that
"I’ve spoken with the owner, and he has confirmed he will give notice to the tenants when we are further along the legal process, and we won’t exchange contracts until the tenants have moved out and you’ve viewed again to ensure that your happy. You solicitor will also advise to view the property prior to exchange anyway."
But I've not even done an initial survey yet and I don't want to start sinking solicitor fees into this only for it to drag out for half a year only to find out there's some major issue after the tenant left.
However a chain free, freehold property sale has every chance of completing within 2 months, so it could all align if the S21 was already served. Still waiting and expecting the buyer to expend money while the LL won't even send a piece of paper is VERY cheeky.
If you really liked this property, I would take back some control and say you'd like to place an offer but conditional on the LL serving S21 notice to the tenant FIRST and a letter from the tenant confirming they plan to leave upon expiry. Or better still, conditional on the LL speaking to the tenant, agreeing a termination date and formalising that via a notice from the tenant to the Landlord with expiry = 2 months from now.
If not forthcoming, then walk away.
But once the initial things have been done and we've progressed a little, I'm going to demand the LL issue the S21 notice, I've shown commitment on my end, now he needs to show commitment on his end.
Thing is I don't know what the norm is and to be honest if I was a seller I too would want to keep the tenant in there until the last minute if possible too. But at some point the seller is going to have to evict them because I ain't singing nothing until they've been evicted, furniture removed, keys handed back.
If the tenant stays after the expiry date then they will have even longer to wait to get it empty whilst it goes through court and even longer if the tenant defends it. You're at the mercy of the courts.
There is also a Renters Bill coming into effect soon which will give tenants even more protection and abolish S21 evictions. I think the notice period then to get the house back is actually 3 months!
You definitely want the house as vacant if you can.0 -
The OP doesn't "want the house as vacant if you can."
The deal with any sale is that the seller provides vacant possession and if the OP has a mortgage, that needs to happen. The OP won't be allowed to exchange contracts unless the tenant has vacated and taken their furniture. The LL needs to remove everything else prior to completion.If you've have not made a mistake, you've made nothing2 -
RAS said:The OP doesn't "want the house as vacant if you can."
The deal with any sale is that the seller provides vacant possession and if the OP has a mortgage, that needs to happen. The OP won't be allowed to exchange contracts unless the tenant has vacated and taken their furniture. The LL needs to remove everything else prior to completion.1 -
SneakySpectator said:saajan_12 said:SneakySpectator said:RAS said:SneakySpectator said:RAS said:Why can't you get a mortgage longer than 25 years? 30+ is pretty normal now.
Inflation will eat into the cost of your repayments within say 5 years. It'd be reasonable to expect to clear a 35 year deal in 25 years.lincroft1710 said:SneakySpectator said:RAS said:Why can't you get a mortgage longer than 25 years? 30+ is pretty normal now.
Inflation will eat into the cost of your repayments within say 5 years. It'd be reasonable to expect to clear a 35 year deal in 25 years.
Trying to buy a tenanted property is not a sensible idea, the vendor is seemingly offloading their property portfolio but for whatever reason is unable to get the tenant to leave.
So I'm looking at 2 months of conveyancing before the section 21 even gets issued, then 2 months notice for that, then if they refuse to leave another few months, then court orders, repossession order etc. I was "assured" by the EA that
"I’ve spoken with the owner, and he has confirmed he will give notice to the tenants when we are further along the legal process, and we won’t exchange contracts until the tenants have moved out and you’ve viewed again to ensure that your happy. You solicitor will also advise to view the property prior to exchange anyway."
But I've not even done an initial survey yet and I don't want to start sinking solicitor fees into this only for it to drag out for half a year only to find out there's some major issue after the tenant left.
However a chain free, freehold property sale has every chance of completing within 2 months, so it could all align if the S21 was already served. Still waiting and expecting the buyer to expend money while the LL won't even send a piece of paper is VERY cheeky.
If you really liked this property, I would take back some control and say you'd like to place an offer but conditional on the LL serving S21 notice to the tenant FIRST and a letter from the tenant confirming they plan to leave upon expiry. Or better still, conditional on the LL speaking to the tenant, agreeing a termination date and formalising that via a notice from the tenant to the Landlord with expiry = 2 months from now.
If not forthcoming, then walk away.
But once the initial things have been done and we've progressed a little, I'm going to demand the LL issue the S21 notice, I've shown commitment on my end, now he needs to show commitment on his end.
Thing is I don't know what the norm is and to be honest if I was a seller I too would want to keep the tenant in there until the last minute if possible too. But at some point the seller is going to have to evict them because I ain't singing nothing until they've been evicted, furniture removed, keys handed back.2 -
SneakySpectator said:HouseMartin567 said:Perhaps you could agree to have the survey done, and once that comes back ‘clear’ then the vendor should serve notice. It does mean a financial commitment from you, but there are lots of threads about people reducing offers or withdrawing after a survey so I can kind of see why a landlord may want to wait until after that point before serving notice (not saying I agree with the approach - I think they shouldn’t have marketed it until empty).
I am ready to go at the drop of a hat while the seller is not, yet the seller is the one trying to dictate all the terms. If he wants to sell the property, get rid of the current tenants, but he is trying to milk every penny from them by letting them live there and only giving them a section 21 notice at the final hurdle.
This could create a massive delay for me, while I'm waiting for this whole thing to go through and potentially tenants resisting eviction or just straight up refusing to leave. I could be missing out on some other really nice vacant properties.
I want to move asap, not be waiting around for tenants that may or may not delay the process by 6+ months... And then at the very end the tenant could cause serious damage to the property and the entire thing falls through anyway.0 -
ReadySteadyPop said:SneakySpectator said:HouseMartin567 said:Perhaps you could agree to have the survey done, and once that comes back ‘clear’ then the vendor should serve notice. It does mean a financial commitment from you, but there are lots of threads about people reducing offers or withdrawing after a survey so I can kind of see why a landlord may want to wait until after that point before serving notice (not saying I agree with the approach - I think they shouldn’t have marketed it until empty).
I am ready to go at the drop of a hat while the seller is not, yet the seller is the one trying to dictate all the terms. If he wants to sell the property, get rid of the current tenants, but he is trying to milk every penny from them by letting them live there and only giving them a section 21 notice at the final hurdle.
This could create a massive delay for me, while I'm waiting for this whole thing to go through and potentially tenants resisting eviction or just straight up refusing to leave. I could be missing out on some other really nice vacant properties.
I want to move asap, not be waiting around for tenants that may or may not delay the process by 6+ months... And then at the very end the tenant could cause serious damage to the property and the entire thing falls through anyway.
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RHemmings said:ReadySteadyPop said:SneakySpectator said:HouseMartin567 said:Perhaps you could agree to have the survey done, and once that comes back ‘clear’ then the vendor should serve notice. It does mean a financial commitment from you, but there are lots of threads about people reducing offers or withdrawing after a survey so I can kind of see why a landlord may want to wait until after that point before serving notice (not saying I agree with the approach - I think they shouldn’t have marketed it until empty).
I am ready to go at the drop of a hat while the seller is not, yet the seller is the one trying to dictate all the terms. If he wants to sell the property, get rid of the current tenants, but he is trying to milk every penny from them by letting them live there and only giving them a section 21 notice at the final hurdle.
This could create a massive delay for me, while I'm waiting for this whole thing to go through and potentially tenants resisting eviction or just straight up refusing to leave. I could be missing out on some other really nice vacant properties.
I want to move asap, not be waiting around for tenants that may or may not delay the process by 6+ months... And then at the very end the tenant could cause serious damage to the property and the entire thing falls through anyway.0 -
SneakySpectator said:RHemmings said:m0bov said:The LL is profiting by keeping rent coming in whilst it's for sale. The buyer is taken the risks whilst the LL profits.
Therefore, the seller may not want to exchange while the tenant is there. If exchange then gets pushed back because the tenant doesn't leave, then there is the risk that the buyer pulls out, and both seller and buyer lose out.
It's often been advised on here to not sink money into the purchase until the property is vacant. If the buyer says that the purchase will stall until the tenant has moved out, then it will be possible to see how the seller reacts.
If I was the buyer, I would make it very clear that no exchange of contracts will happen unless the contract is for vacant possession. And that exchange of contracts is expected by <date>.GDB2222 said:Even if the op finds an owner occupied flat to buy, there’s plenty of opportunity for that transaction to fall through, too. How do you calculate the difference in the risks?
(Cut and paste of comment failed. Italics are the quote)
This is very true; there are all sorts of things that can derail a purchase. But, here we're talking about one particular problem. Which it appears that the OP's seller is making a bigger risk by not giving notice. E.g. in the following quote from the OP.Yeah I'm having second thoughts as well now, the estate agent straight up told me that once we are further down the line and close to sealing everything, the tenants will be issued their section 21 notice.
So I'm looking at 2 months of conveyancing before the section 21 even gets issued, then 2 months notice for that, then if they refuse to leave another few months, then court orders, repossession order etc. I was "assured" by the EA that
"I’ve spoken with the owner, and he has confirmed he will give notice to the tenants when we are further along the legal process, and we won’t exchange contracts until the tenants have moved out and you’ve viewed again to ensure that your happy. You solicitor will also advise to view the property prior to exchange anyway."
But I've not even done an initial survey yet and I don't want to start sinking solicitor fees into this only for it to drag out for half a year only to find out there's some major issue after the tenant left.
Also while the estate agent did say the seller won't evict until we're further along the process, she did assure me that no contracts will be exchanged until the tenant is out of the property, furniture cleared out and keys handed back.0 -
ReadySteadyPop said:SneakySpectator said:HouseMartin567 said:Perhaps you could agree to have the survey done, and once that comes back ‘clear’ then the vendor should serve notice. It does mean a financial commitment from you, but there are lots of threads about people reducing offers or withdrawing after a survey so I can kind of see why a landlord may want to wait until after that point before serving notice (not saying I agree with the approach - I think they shouldn’t have marketed it until empty).
I am ready to go at the drop of a hat while the seller is not, yet the seller is the one trying to dictate all the terms. If he wants to sell the property, get rid of the current tenants, but he is trying to milk every penny from them by letting them live there and only giving them a section 21 notice at the final hurdle.
This could create a massive delay for me, while I'm waiting for this whole thing to go through and potentially tenants resisting eviction or just straight up refusing to leave. I could be missing out on some other really nice vacant properties.
I want to move asap, not be waiting around for tenants that may or may not delay the process by 6+ months... And then at the very end the tenant could cause serious damage to the property and the entire thing falls through anyway.
From what I can tell, there are only 6 top floor corner flats in the complex and only 1 of them is up for sale. There are slightly cheaper flats that are identical pretty much but they're not top floor, and the ones that are top floor have 2 points of contact instead of the 1.
Noise is a really big issue for me so I put a lot of value on that.2
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