Air Source Heat Pumps and the Shared Ownership problems

Badkarma81

Good day all

Purchased a 50% share in a Shared Ownership property in July last year and knew the property came with an Air Source Heat Pump - moved in, in Sept 2024 and within a month the ASHP decided it had worked hard enough and quit on us which transpires is the Nibe 360P Fighter (BBC articles and numerous other news outlets covered the story of this wonderful ineffective system). 

The Heat pump is stuck in winter mode and until recently was setting us back around £400 - 450 a month in electricity until the warmer weather kicked in. ASHP engineer came out and advised us that the system is not designed for a 3 bedroom property our size, pipework and radiators are too small - he was the original servicing engineer on behalf of Nibe that had worked on this system with the previous owner. There is however a capped gas pipe in the same cupboard as the ASHP.

So we contacted the HA and requested we replace the ASHP with a Combi Boiler, provided the quotes from registered companies and have been denied - they will only permit a like for like replacement and this is only where the saga begins....

We are in a row of 3 SO properties with one property being permitted by the HA to replace the ASHP with a combi, which the HA are denying they have permitted (family are trying to locate their paperwork to assist in this). Heat Pump company has stated the pipework & radiators could not have been installed with a heat pump in mind as they are inefficient and likely a last minute thought as they is a capped gas pipe to the cupboard.

I have raised a complaint with the HA to no avail, they have even rejected a SAR when I requested all email correspondence between departments regarding the address.

Are there any other avenues I could explore to get this resolved?

As for reasons to not get another Heat Pump is cost, remedial work on pipes & radiators adding to the additional costs.

MWT

When was the property built?

Badkarma81

2010 I believe

MWT

Badkarma81 said:

2010 I believe

No help from any warranties then unfortunately. 

matelodave

As far as I remember a lot of housing associations jumped onto the heatpump bandwagon and must have bought job lots of the Nibe heatpumps which weren't really suited to the properties they were installed in.  If I remember rightly HA's got grants to fit them around that time which probably incentivised them to change without considering the consequences.

Many installation were carried out by poorly trained and inexperienced plumbers who didn't understand heat pumps and generally just exchanged a boiler for a heatpump. One of the reasons that heatpump still don't have the best of reputations.

TBH looking at the Nibe documentation its seems that its more like an electric heating system with a heatpump bolted on so although you get some benefit from the heatpump bit you are still doing some heating with an immersion heater and then the heatpump recovers heat from within the building - It appears that there isn't an outside unit so the unit has to extract air via ducting inside the building and exhaust the cooled air to the outside (a bit like a heat recovery system)

So unless sufficient heat is available from lighting, cooking, people etc then the system uses an immersion heater to provide the extra - I cant find any info on the COP or SCOP as I reckon its pretty dreadful especially if it gets used like a boiler system.

Badkarma81

There in lies the problem, they tried feeding me a line regarding Energy Performance Certification so I asked how can we be held accountable for a decision when the property was constructed in 2009 (not 2010 like I initially thought) - also asked how often are new checks by the local council are conducted to ensure the properties still meet the EPC as set out when planning permission was given....they wouldnt answer

Have also found a website (cant post links)- How installing a low carbon hear pump can downgrade your EPC rating - Green Services Direct:  which if I understand correctly means that any EPC rating prior to 2022 may be incorrect anyway

gwynlas

Raise a formal complaint citing the inadequacy of your system and reiterate prescence of capped gas pipe and your wish to install combii boiler.

Copy complaint to your local councillor and MP. keeping a paper trail of everything

matelodave

Badkarma81 said:

Have also found a website (cant post links)- How installing a low carbon hear pump can downgrade your EPC rating - Green Services Direct:  which if I understand correctly means that any EPC rating prior to 2022 may be incorrect anyway

You are correct, replacing a gas boiler could easily downgrade your EPC score because it was based on the energy requirements of the building together with the cost of that energy rather than on the energy input required to achieve the buildings energy requirement. As electricity is around four times the cost of gas any benefit of having a heatpump was negated by the running cost of the fuel. It didn't seem to take into account the carbon emissions

The EPC requirements have now been updated, to be more accurate in estimating building energy requirements and hopefully recognised that heatpumps are low carbon sources (at the point of use). AFAIK the new regulations came into force this week.

An EPC is valid for ten years and a current one is required when you sell or rent out a new property, so you should have been given one when you took over the place. You can check on line whether your place has a current certificate but there's no requirement to keep updating it or the system. - https://www.gov.uk/find-energy-certificate

There's nothing to stop you commissioning your own EPC 

born_again

 There is however a capped gas pipe in the same cupboard as the ASHP.

So are you paying standing charge for a gas supply? If not then you will not have a meter.

Badkarma81

born_again said:

 There is however a capped gas pipe in the same cupboard as the ASHP.

So are you paying standing charge for a gas supply? If not then you will not have a meter.

We have a gas cooker and on a meter

We've been quoted a little over £5000 for a combi boiler to be fitted and a mechanical extraction unit to be added to the existing ventilation system to ensure we have extraction - so far in order for us to replace the ASHP with another we are looking at £15000 (not eligible for grants so ive been informed) not including the pipework and radiators. 

Scot_39

Would the OP have more success - maybe trying to get permission for a more efficient ASHP install - if thats within a suitable price range.  

If the current one is dominated by it's "electric boiler" like mode as it was described by another forumite above - and so often low efficiency - would that then still qualify fot the grant ?

Not sure what would have happened in a group scheme - but as AFAIK in more normal domestic properties - the removal of gas is a two stage process.  Capping at the old meter site.  Then disconnecting pipework if deemed necessary - at the street level - typically with a 12m gap - but often not done at all with the blue plastic not metal underground pipework.  

It might well be worth the OP contacting the local GDO - if not alredy done so - to see if needs to also factor in a new street to cabinet gas connection.