Jointly-Owned (Shared) Land with other Properties

Gravy0

Hello

We are considering buying a house that is in an end terrace and can be seen on the pic as no 1.  The land I've circled in red (a car park and a lane that runs behind the other properties) is shared with the property we're looking at plus the other 7 properties (8 in total).

I've asked the vendor: 
"is there a “Maintenance Agreement” (or a “Covenant” or “Homeowners Association Agreement”) in place between the 8 house owners on Railway Terrace for the land that is jointly owned?"

Who's replied and said:
"In terms of a maintenance agreement between the 8 houses I don’t recall anything. However my solicitor did look into all of this when I bought the property so I will look back through the records. There is no monthly payment to anyone.
The land ownership is one of those things I probably left no stone unturned with when I bought the house but there’s never been any issues. I’ve found all the neighbours here to be quite harmonious to live near and we have a nice community so just all pull together."

While I appreciate things are currently harmonious and going well and everyone gets on (and have done for the past 11 years that the vendor has lived there), it’s when people disagree on things that we’re concerned about and how issues would be dealt with if there were to be a disagreement/dispute in future, or, if, say, 7 people agreed on something but someone else didn’t - where would we stand legally, for example, if all of the other people suddenly wanted to tarmac the car park and lane, and we didn't, where would we stand?  it all makes me a little unnerved (especially where a huge cost might suddenly be involved).

Do any of you have any thoughts (or concerns)? 
Is there anything I need to consider that I haven't?
Would *you* buy this property?  And if so, why?  And if not, why?

Thanks in advance

Section62

Gravy0 said:

...
I've asked the vendor: 
"is there a “Maintenance Agreement” (or a “Covenant” or “Homeowners Association Agreement”) in place between the 8 house owners on Railway Terrace for the land that is jointly owned?"

Who's replied and said:
"In terms of a maintenance agreement between the 8 houses I don’t recall anything. However my solicitor did look into all of this when I bought the property so I will look back through the records. There is no monthly payment to anyone.
The land ownership is one of those things I probably left no stone unturned with when I bought the house but there’s never been any issues. I’ve found all the neighbours here to be quite harmonious to live near and we have a nice community so just all pull together."

...

Is there any evidence of the land being "jointly owned"?

If I were to place a bet I'd go with the land being owned by the railway company (TfL?), since "Railway Terrace" was quite probably built by them to house rail workers.

Over time people have probably been able to park there with nothing being done, perhaps because rail workers were occupying the houses when any questions were asked.

Rather than maintenance issues, my concern would be if the true land owner turns up and does something to stop people parking on the land... for example if it is railway land then the rail co might need the land for operational reasons (e.g. installing an access, or electrical/signalling equipment).  As a worst case you could be faced not only with the loss of parking, but becoming a neighbour of something potentially quite ugly.

So I think I'd only buy if the owner of the land can be identified in some way.

Gravy0

Thanks for your comments/input.  I shall try and find out if the Railway Company own the land or if it really does belong to the home-owners.

If it does turn out to be the home-owners, what things should I be thinking about/considering?

Section62

Gravy0 said:

Thanks for your comments/input.  I shall try and find out if the Railway Company own the land or if it really does belong to the home-owners.

If it does turn out to be the home-owners, what things should I be thinking about/considering?

What, if anything, is in writing.  Specifically what your rights and liabilities are.

But reading between the lines of the response you got from the vendor I think it is fairly unlikely the land is owned by the residents - if the whole area is jointly owned then there would need to be a legal structure around this.  If the land is owned in individual portions by the different property owners then this should show up in the deeds.  Either way the question you asked should have generated a clear answer.

Brie

Apart from what's already been mentioned I'm not sure I'd want to be next to the parking lot.  End of terrace certainly has some advantages (noise only from one wall instead of 2) but unless you are a heavy sleeper are you going to be happy to hear someone coming home noisily at 3 am or fixing their car, revving the engine on a weekend?

I'd also want to know what's with the green leafy bit between 1 and the railway station.  Protected SSI so can't be built on?  Or messy scrub that teens inhabit on hot summer evenings?  So as with any property I'd be driving by it at various times of day and days of the week to check out the neighbourhood.

bobster2

Section62 said:

Gravy0 said:

Thanks for your comments/input.  I shall try and find out if the Railway Company own the land or if it really does belong to the home-owners.

If it does turn out to be the home-owners, what things should I be thinking about/considering?

What, if anything, is in writing.  Specifically what your rights and liabilities are.

But reading between the lines of the response you got from the vendor I think it is fairly unlikely the land is owned by the residents - if the whole area is jointly owned then there would need to be a legal structure around this.  If the land is owned in individual portions by the different property owners then this should show up in the deeds.  Either way the question you asked should have generated a clear answer.

Yes - once common structure would be the chunk of land having its own entry in the land registry. And then there being some sort of management company (including all the house owners) that owns this chunk of land.

Gravy0

Thanks for all of your helpful replies

Gravy0

I have had a response from Network Rail now and they have confirmed the land isn't owned by them, as you can see by the picture they have sent me (theirs is the green and red land)

Gravy0

The woodland area behind the house is shown in the pictures here and is owned by the council (council-owned is inside the red line) and there is a public footpath through the woodland that leads to fields behind it (I think the car park is probably for people to park near the public footpath - but I don't know this for sure).

.

Land_Registry

Gravy0 said:

The woodland area behind the house is shown in the pictures here and is owned by the council (council-owned is inside the red line) and there is a public footpath through the woodland that leads to fields behind it (I think the car park is probably for people to park near the public footpath - but I don't know this for sure).

So you know who owns the other land but what about the land you are querying? Have you checked to see if it’s actually registered and if so who owns it? https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry 

If it’s unregistered then our blog offers some ideas for trying to identify who might own it - https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2018/02/05/search-owner-unregistered-land/
it seems extremely unlikely that the land is jointly owned by the 8 houses for example or there’s any management company involved. And if a neighbour suggested you all pitch in to improve/maintain the land as a car park etc then it will be a choice rather than obligation I suspect 
I’ll leave it for others to offer thoughts re concerns or other Qs 

Section62

Gravy0 said:

The woodland area behind the house is shown in the pictures here and is owned by the council (council-owned is inside the red line) and there is a public footpath through the woodland that leads to fields behind it (I think the car park is probably for people to park near the public footpath - but I don't know this for sure).

Old OS mapping reveals the presence of a second railway line, including a station adjacent to Railway Terrace.  So I think my hunch about the land being owned by the railway (including the terrace) was right originally, but ownerships have changed since this line was closed and lifted.

It was fairly typical for the land of closed railway lines to be transferred to the local authority - unless it reverted to the original landowner (e.g. lines passing through fields).  This might explain the council's current land ownership here.

I'd guess the car park area was once land associated with the station (not necessarily a car park).  I'd also guess that it isn't shown within the council's current ownership due to some slipup in the process of closing the railway and transferring the land.  In which case it might belong to either the council or Network Rail.

I'd still take the view that unless there is a legal structure (e.g. a management co) it is unlikely this land is jointly owned by the owners of the properties.