Jointly-Owned (Shared) Land with other Properties

Gravy0

Land_Registry said:

Gravy0 said:

The woodland area behind the house is shown in the pictures here and is owned by the council (council-owned is inside the red line) and there is a public footpath through the woodland that leads to fields behind it (I think the car park is probably for people to park near the public footpath - but I don't know this for sure).

So you know who owns the other land but what about the land you are querying? Have you checked to see if it’s actually registered and if so who owns it? https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry 

If it’s unregistered then our blog offers some ideas for trying to identify who might own it - https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2018/02/05/search-owner-unregistered-land/
it seems extremely unlikely that the land is jointly owned by the 8 houses for example or there’s any management company involved. And if a neighbour suggested you all pitch in to improve/maintain the land as a car park etc then it will be a choice rather than obligation I suspect 
I’ll leave it for others to offer thoughts re concerns or other Qs 

I can't locate it on land registry as it doesn't have an actual address and it won't search "piece of land next to 1 Railway Terrace".  I got a friend to try too in case I was just being dumb.

Gravy0

Section62 said:

Gravy0 said:

The woodland area behind the house is shown in the pictures here and is owned by the council (council-owned is inside the red line) and there is a public footpath through the woodland that leads to fields behind it (I think the car park is probably for people to park near the public footpath - but I don't know this for sure).

Old OS mapping reveals the presence of a second railway line, including a station adjacent to Railway Terrace.  So I think my hunch about the land being owned by the railway (including the terrace) was right originally, but ownerships have changed since this line was closed and lifted.

It was fairly typical for the land of closed railway lines to be transferred to the local authority - unless it reverted to the original landowner (e.g. lines passing through fields).  This might explain the council's current land ownership here.

I'd guess the car park area was once land associated with the station (not necessarily a car park).  I'd also guess that it isn't shown within the council's current ownership due to some slipup in the process of closing the railway and transferring the land.  In which case it might belong to either the council or Network Rail.

I'd still take the view that unless there is a legal structure (e.g. a management co) it is unlikely this land is jointly owned by the owners of the properties.

How do I find out who owns the land though as I've asked the current owner and she says it's jointly owned?  I don't know how else I can find out?  

sheramber

Gravy0 said:

Section62 said:

Gravy0 said:

The woodland area behind the house is shown in the pictures here and is owned by the council (council-owned is inside the red line) and there is a public footpath through the woodland that leads to fields behind it (I think the car park is probably for people to park near the public footpath - but I don't know this for sure).

Old OS mapping reveals the presence of a second railway line, including a station adjacent to Railway Terrace.  So I think my hunch about the land being owned by the railway (including the terrace) was right originally, but ownerships have changed since this line was closed and lifted.

It was fairly typical for the land of closed railway lines to be transferred to the local authority - unless it reverted to the original landowner (e.g. lines passing through fields).  This might explain the council's current land ownership here.

I'd guess the car park area was once land associated with the station (not necessarily a car park).  I'd also guess that it isn't shown within the council's current ownership due to some slipup in the process of closing the railway and transferring the land.  In which case it might belong to either the council or Network Rail.

I'd still take the view that unless there is a legal structure (e.g. a management co) it is unlikely this land is jointly owned by the owners of the properties.

How do I find out who owns the land though as I've asked the current owner and she says it's jointly owned?  I don't know how else I can find out?  

Have you asked any of the neighbours?

Section62

Gravy0 said:

How do I find out who owns the land though as I've asked the current owner and she says it's jointly owned?  I don't know how else I can find out?  

See the post by @Land_Registry

Doing some digging, there's a post on a community history site with a photo of the houses - this suggests the houses were in poor condition in the 1990's before being done up by a developer in 1995.  Which probably means they were in a single ownership in the first half of the 1990's when compulsory registration came into force.

You need to do a map search using one of the commercial websites charging a premium to supply LR docs. (so use the official LR site if you want to buy).

This appears to show Number 1 has a rectangle of contiguous land in the car park which looks like it could be a parking area - there are 4 adjacent rectangles of land, with INSPIRE references which appear to be linked to different houses along the terrace, along with another 2 on the opposite side of the car park.

In other words, it looks like rather than shared land, 7 of the houses own a parking space-size area of the car park - but the rest of this area is owned by someone else - possibly the owner of number 8.

If so, you'll need to confirm this and make sure the property you are interested in has a legal RoW to access and park on what seems to be a dedicated parking area.

Also bear in mind when one of the other houses in the terrace was on the market a while ago the EA noted that part of the garden was not "officially owned".  This could be a red flag.... as it implies there is some kind of adverse possession situation going on with that property, so make sure you check carefully that you'll be buying exactly what you think you are buying.

If you progress with buying the property, make sure your solicitor checks the land ownership and access/parking rights very carefully.

WIAWSNB

That's some impressive researching
I don't suppose an indemnity policy could cover this for the OP?

Section62

WIAWSNB said:

That's some impressive researching
I don't suppose an indemnity policy could cover this for the OP?

First thing is to verify the ownership situation and if the property has rights to access the space.  If the answer is 'yes' then I don't think an indemnity policy would be needed.  If the answer is 'no' then personally I'd be walking away as there are other possible issues.

I meant to add to my previous post that the access arrangements which need checking include the path at the 'front' of the house - like a lot of railway properties the 'front' appears to have faced the railway, with the 'rear' being accessed from the road/track.  The 'front' seems to have pedestrian access only, and this may also be owned by number 8.

Gravy0

Section62 said:

Gravy0 said:

How do I find out who owns the land though as I've asked the current owner and she says it's jointly owned?  I don't know how else I can find out?  

See the post by @Land_Registry

Doing some digging, there's a post on a community history site with a photo of the houses - this suggests the houses were in poor condition in the 1990's before being done up by a developer in 1995.  Which probably means they were in a single ownership in the first half of the 1990's when compulsory registration came into force.

You need to do a map search using one of the commercial websites charging a premium to supply LR docs. (so use the official LR site if you want to buy).

This appears to show Number 1 has a rectangle of contiguous land in the car park which looks like it could be a parking area - there are 4 adjacent rectangles of land, with INSPIRE references which appear to be linked to different houses along the terrace, along with another 2 on the opposite side of the car park.

In other words, it looks like rather than shared land, 7 of the houses own a parking space-size area of the car park - but the rest of this area is owned by someone else - possibly the owner of number 8.

If so, you'll need to confirm this and make sure the property you are interested in has a legal RoW to access and park on what seems to be a dedicated parking area.

Also bear in mind when one of the other houses in the terrace was on the market a while ago the EA noted that part of the garden was not "officially owned".  This could be a red flag.... as it implies there is some kind of adverse possession situation going on with that property, so make sure you check carefully that you'll be buying exactly what you think you are buying.

If you progress with buying the property, make sure your solicitor checks the land ownership and access/parking rights very carefully.

Thanks @Section62 that's some very impressive research indeed. How do I "...do a map search using one of the commercial websites charging a premium to supply LR docs. (so use the official LR site if you want to buy)."

Section62

Gravy0 said:

Thanks Section62 that's some very impressive research indeed. How do I "...do a map search using one of the commercial websites charging a premium to supply LR docs. (so use the official LR site if you want to buy)."

I'll PM you a link to one of the sites.

You also ought to check the local council's planning website if you haven't already - the property next door has a currently open change of use application which may affect whether you want to live there or not.

Gravy0

Section62 said:

Gravy0 said:

Thanks Section62 that's some very impressive research indeed. How do I "...do a map search using one of the commercial websites charging a premium to supply LR docs. (so use the official LR site if you want to buy)."

I'll PM you a link to one of the sites.

You also ought to check the local council's planning website if you haven't already - the property next door has a currently open change of use application which may affect whether you want to live there or not.

Thank you so much for your help with this (and sending the link) - it really is very much appreciated