RTS Switch off / Smart Meters: Necessary or opportunity?

JakeHyde

Hi Money-Savers,

My dad’s being pressured to switch his old electricity meter to a smart meter. I’ve heard all sorts of mixed opinions about smart meters, from people saying “don’t touch them” to others saying they’re fine... but with the 'Radio Teleswitch Service (RTS)' being phased out, it feels like we don’t really have a choice anymore.

I get that the switch-off is happening, but I also can’t help wondering if this is being used as an excuse to push smart meters into every home.

I’ll admit I’m pretty clueless about how this all works, so I’d really appreciate any advice or experiences you can share — especially if you or someone you know has been through this with RTS and smart meter upgrades.

Thanks so much for any help 🫡

(Also including a few YouTube links I’ve been watching on the subject — curious what others think.)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_2Mj9XQ1WHQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAFQzqGS7nk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3nZN_mrF-E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01jzhAceioE

MattMattMattUK

JakeHyde said:

Hi Money-Savers,

My dad’s being pressured to switch his old electricity meter to a smart meter. I’ve heard all sorts of mixed opinions about smart meters, from people saying “don’t touch them” to others saying they’re fine... but with the 'Radio Teleswitch Service (RTS)' being phased out, it feels like we don’t really have a choice anymore.

I get that the switch-off is happening, but I also can’t help wondering if this is being used as an excuse to push smart meters into every home.

I’ll admit I’m pretty clueless about how this all works, so I’d really appreciate any advice or experiences you can share — especially if you or someone you know has been through this with RTS and smart meter upgrades.

Thanks so much for any help 🫡

(Also including a few YouTube links I’ve been watching on the subject — curious what others think.)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_2Mj9XQ1WHQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAFQzqGS7nk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3nZN_mrF-E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01jzhAceioE

Smart meters are totally safe, they are not some evil tool of government. Your father should have one installed.

As for the videos, stop watching videos posted by idiots and conspiracy theorists.

Qyburn

What hearing system and tariff does he have?  

JakeHyde

Qyburn said:

What hearing system and tariff does he have?  

Overnight storage, and an immersion heater. he used to have Eco7 but they are currently being charged at the same rate for some reason, I need to look in to it.

Scot_39

Good in terms of meter fitting.

Many but not all even with that set-up are better off on E7 than singe rate - but not all.

You would have to look at his bill splits - and how his supplier sets the E7 rates in his region (they really are that specific) 

And if losing on single rate - find out why was switched (his request, maybe offered a cheaper deal at one point, if he is as wary as you on smart meters - has he refused upgrades repeatedly in past ? etc etc)

E7 is a standard offering on smart meters - so hopefully really shouldnt be a problem.  

If they fit a meter try to ensure they know the old E7 and heating /hw arrangment - should be obvious to the meter fitter - one that supports something known as ALCS (auxiliary load - in your case NSH/HW - control switch - switches a restricted output so only live 7 hrs on E7 (as well as normal 24/7 ouput))

The simplest being a 5 port one - so can drive the NSH and immersion heaters at off peak only using internal switch - as I suspect thats maybe what the old RTS switch is doing. 

That way you will still have the option of single rate or going back onto E7 - and wont have to worry about fitting separate timers to devices.

Although for some - their off peak times can change - as many new installs are one 7 hr block overnight.

Others have had 2 blocks - some with a second block before midnight - or some even 5 overnight 2 in afternoon on other legacy RTS etc - but still charged as E7.

Do you know when your dad's heaters / hot water are switched on / off on a daily basis currently ?

JakeHyde

Scot_39 said:

Good.

E7 is a standard offering on smart meters - so hopefully really shouldnt be a problem.  

If they fit a meter they should fit one that supports something known as ALCS (fancy for also controls / gives the time restricted 7 hrs on E7 feed) - the simplest being a 5 port one - so can drive the NSH and immersion heaters at off peak only - as I suspect thats maybe what the old RTS switch is doing. 

Although for some - their off peak times can change - as many new installs are one 7 hr block overnight.

Others have had 2 blocks - some with a second block before midnight - or some even 5 overnight 2 in afternoon on other legacy RTS etc - but still charged as E7.

Do you know when your dad's heaters / hot water are switched on / off on a daily basis currently ?

Ooof, I hope I remember all that! haha

E7 just controls the overnight storage as far as I know, and the water is on the other circuit. I think he has it on 24/7 (I dunno if that's right or not). The heating is switched off currently it's mainly used for winter. He has electric heaters for the living room.  He's elderly so at least he won't have to struggle reading/sending the readings off. 

The house is old and too big, we're looking to get him into something smaller if/when we can afford it.

QrizB

JakeHyde said:

E7 just controls the overnight storage as far as I know, and the water is on the other circuit. I think he has it on 24/7 (I dunno if that's right or not). 

If he has a hot water tank, it should have two immersion heater elements; one high on the tank, one low.

One of them (usually the lower one) would normally be wired to the E7 circuit. The other one (usually the high one) is on the 24h supply and should only be turned on for a boost if he runs out of stored hot water.

Scot_39

On / off on NSH 

NSH are traditionally charged overnight (heat up / consuming power) say on E7 on off peak rates - and then output their heat -  in the older models passively (by radiation/convection) - over the whole of the day.

So if old like mine

Input - taking full charge power - on for upto 7 (device thermostat often reduces onced back to temperature), off for 17 (not drawing power) - but outputting heat for 24.

So yes your dad probably is "just leaving them on all day" (they heat all day.

So for instance at absolute theoretical max my largest NSH on E7 - that could be as much as using 7 hr x3.6kW rated heating element power input = 25 kWh units of billed energy - that would then - as mines are old - be output passively over the 24 hours of the day - so on ave 1kWh per hour - 1 charged unit of energy per hour over the day.

Or if you like the equivalent of running a 1kW heater all day and night - say like a fan heater or large convection heater on lowest setting. But the time shifting of bill rates the key - for 17 of those hours using the heat stored in the device - bought at off peak rates - not live power from the meter that other heating types could use - charged at often single rates on single rate deal - or worse yet at much higher E7 (oops) peak rates.

Meter Control for NSH

On my older heaters - they only have one power supply - and that only feeds the heating elements. The supply circuit is switched on only at off peak rates and is actually done by the meter - not a third party switch.  

When I was RTS - my RTS meter switched that restricted supply - I then switched to digital (nearly a decade ago pre smart - it did the switch - and now that I have one - an earlishsh adoptor as on smets1 - my smart meter switches that supply (ALCS in the geek speak)

Is E7 or SR the best Deal

Some suppliers E7 rates balanced very differently - a see saw around an average total cost (if you like average cap rate) number set by Ofgem. So even under cap SVT - one might set 15p, 35p with Single rate around 27p - another might set 10p / 40p or really flat - 23 29p. 

But when you crunch the numbers a good E7 tariff will often beat single rate - with around 35%+/- say 5% - of total use - at the offpeak rates.

I am on E10 - so pay more for 10 hours off peak - and I have 3 NSH and HW off peak - but not my cold fed electric shower - and I use 75% off peak - a high heat user would likely be higher.

In a really cold snap even that peaks over 90% daily - and in summer - sadly dips just below c50% - my E10s higher breakeven vs SR.  

But 75% as the annual average key for me

And the reason to pursue the energy use mix - assuming the meter(s) still have 2 seperate readings hopefully straightforward - the xxp/kWh rates on e7 the same - and the single rate query - especially if your dad is a high off peak user - it matters.

So if on say 15/35p E7 - vs c27p single rate,

75% off peak would be an average unit rate of (75 x 15+ 25 * 35)/100 = 20p.  You want E7 (or better)

50% off peak would be on average 25p - marginal

25% off peak would be on average 30p - so worse than SR - switch to SR

On a really flat rate - the % off peak - doesn't matter as much.

Distant Future to think about -if that is you dont downsize for dad

There is even now a smart meter tariff specifically designed for NSH (those on ALCS) - from Octopus - Snug - when got a quote it was notably cheaper than E7 (c30%/10% - so 20% at 5050) and the 7 split 6 overnight + 1 hr off peak heater boost in the afternoon. They couldnt give me a smets2 upgrade at the time.