Tenant gave notice, but won't leave. Also in rent arrears.

Countist

Yes I think research and potential legal advice is the next step, the letting agents are still telling her she'll likely be better off financially doing nothing and waiting for him to go (and to be fair, that is in line with what some posters have said here).

But given their vested interest in doing as little work as possible, that's not surprising.

saajan_12

Countist said:

Ok so if she does end up having to go down the CCJ route, what are the potential costs and what are the potential benefits. I think I see it as:

- Legal Fees

+ Rental Arrears
+ Mesne Profits from Overstaying
+ Compensation for loss of tenants(? is this a thing)
+ anything else? compensation for inconvenience? punitive compensation?

and then how could the loss be recovered, I think it was mentioned it could be suggested it taken out of his earnings or a charge put on his property, I've no idea how the latter would work in reality. 

Maybe straying out of home advice and more legal advice now, but I thought it worth a try if anyone's had to do it before.

Legal fees could be fairly minimal, just the filing and hearing fees initially, which could be added to the claim. That gets you to an eviction (if htey don't leave soon) and a CCJ, which the tenant may just pay off if they're worried about the house purchase. The recovery fees could get higher but sounds like you're likely to get the money back eventually. Wouldn't get solicitor fees for things that the LL can do themselves, so if the LL wants that help it would be an unreimbursed cost. 

Re mesne profits - this is now highly conditional on what the status of hte tenancy is.. the last letter from the LL may have scuppered this, as the tenant could argue its an agreement to continue the tenancy. 

Wouldn't get compensation or inconvenience money, just reimbursement of actual and unavoidable costs. 

Re enforcement - if the tenant can pass affordability for a mortgage, then they probably have earnings that can be attached. Gettign a charging order on the house will mean if/when they want to sell the house, they'll have to pay this off first. That could take longer but will be fairly likley to work. Also the CCJ itself may be problematic when they want to get broadband, phone contracts, etc etc so they may just pay it off before you even have to go through the enforcement steps. 

housebuyer143

Countist said:

Yes I think research and potential legal advice is the next step, the letting agents are still telling her she'll likely be better off financially doing nothing and waiting for him to go (and to be fair, that is in line with what some posters have said here).

But given their vested interest in doing as little work as possible, that's not surprising.

If this wasn't their stance then 2 months ago a section 8 would have been issued and you would probably have a court date lined up or soon to be lined up by now. 
I don't see how she is better off now having 2 more months arrears or how if another 2-3 months go by with no rent, that she would be "better off". 

I would tell them to issue a s21 immediately (assuming periodic contact). this doesn't cost her anything as the agent will be able to do it, but at least she has some legal recourse if he's still there in 2 months. S8 really should be happening though. 

ReadySteadyPop

Has the tenant moved out?

_Penny_Dreadful

Countist said:

Ok she sent this this morning:

"I understand you’ve recently been in touch with AGENT regarding your move-out date and the delays in your property purchase. Having been through a similar situation myself, I genuinely sympathise — I know how unpredictable the process can be.

However, you formally gave written notice confirming that your final day of tenancy would be XXX. While timing issues can arise with purchases, it was ultimately your decision to serve notice before exchange or completion had taken place. Unfortunately, this has now created a difficult situation.

To be clear, a new tenancy agreement has already been signed with incoming tenants based on the move-out date you provided. Your decision not to vacate as agreed puts both myself and them in a very challenging position. AGENT have also advised that without a confirmed end date, they’re unable to re-market the property, risking a potentially extended vacancy period.

I appreciate this is far from ideal, but I had hoped we could find a cooperative way forward that minimises disruption for everyone. If you’re unwilling to engage constructively to agree a revised, mutually acceptable move-out plan, I may have no choice but to initiate formal proceedings under Section 8, Ground 11, and seek a County Court Judgment. Please be aware that this can have serious consequences for your credit rating and future financial arrangements, including mortgage applications.

I also want to flag that communication has been quite poor throughout. I’ve been told by AGENT that they’ve experienced significant delays trying to reach you about rent and viewings. And as you’re likely aware, completion rarely happens within a day of exchange — so it’s surprising that no update was given when it became clear your planned departure date was unrealistic.

I would encourage you to consider short-term accommodation options if your purchase is still pending. This would not only help protect the position of the new tenants but also avoid further escalation on all sides.

Please confirm your position as soon as possible so that we can try to resolve this constructively"

maybe Albermarle's suggestion is a good back-up plan.

The tenant has served notice. There’s no need for your friend to issue a section 8 or 21 notice. 

A tenancy can only be ended by the tenant or a court and the tenant has done that by serving, presumably valid, notice. This means the tenant is now trespassing and your friend can apply straight to court for a possession order. 

Signing a tenancy agreement with new tenants before the current one left was foolish. When your friend fails to allow the new people to move in she will be in breach of contract and they can sue her. I’d never have new tenants lined up before the outgoing tenant has really left, I’ve had the opportunity to inspect the property and take care of any maintenance/repairs. 

HillStreetBlues

_Penny_Dreadful said:

Signing a tenancy agreement with new tenants before the current one left was foolish. When your friend fails to allow the new people to move in she will be in breach of contract and they can sue her. I’d never have new tenants lined up before the outgoing tenant has really left, I’ve had the opportunity to inspect the property and take care of any maintenance/repairs. 

I believe a factor is if the new tenants knew that there was a current tenant in situ

_Penny_Dreadful

HillStreetBlues said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

Signing a tenancy agreement with new tenants before the current one left was foolish. When your friend fails to allow the new people to move in she will be in breach of contract and they can sue her. I’d never have new tenants lined up before the outgoing tenant has really left, I’ve had the opportunity to inspect the property and take care of any maintenance/repairs. 

I believe a factor is if the new tenants knew that there was a current tenant in situ

It's not a factor.  The landlord will be in breach of contract.

km1500

If the new tenants did sue the op and the op had to pay damages, could those damages be added to any claim against the existing tenant as some kind of consequential loss due to their behavior

Murphybear

housebuyer143 said:

Unfortunately your friend has been a light touch. No way should this tenant be in 4 months arrears. The second he got into two months arrears a section 21 and section 8 should have been issued and court proceedings should have commenced immediately. 

Hindsight is 20/20 though. She will know for future. 

So this stage all she can do is either bribe the tenants to leave, as in agree to wipe all the arrears if the tenant leaves. Tell them if they don't go by Friday then she will start court proceedings and will pursue them for the arrears plus court costs. 
I've had tenants leave in the past after such an offer, so if she wants to cut her losses that might be the way to go. Unfortunately if he refuses then there is no easy fix and she's probably going to have to start court proceedings and just wait for him to leave as his house is likely to be ready long before the court date comes about. 

The problem is if the tenant is genuinely buying a property which is not ready I don’t think anything will shift them even a big bribe.  

HillStreetBlues

_Penny_Dreadful said:

HillStreetBlues said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

Signing a tenancy agreement with new tenants before the current one left was foolish. When your friend fails to allow the new people to move in she will be in breach of contract and they can sue her. I’d never have new tenants lined up before the outgoing tenant has really left, I’ve had the opportunity to inspect the property and take care of any maintenance/repairs. 

I believe a factor is if the new tenants knew that there was a current tenant in situ

It's not a factor.  The landlord will be in breach of contract.

It could well be a factor as if future tenant knew  then LL could try and claim "frustration", rather than breach.