Tenant gave notice, but won't leave. Also in rent arrears.

deannagone

While some people have suggested the chances of getting the rent arrears back are unlikely, they are not looking into this situation closely enough.  This tenant is in the process of buying a new place, with a mortgage.  He needs his credit worthiness to not be downgraded right now.  Issuing CCJ proceedings could rearrange his priorities.  Its up to him if he loses his mortgage and house.  Like it was from the beginning.  I suspect if the LL gets a bit more business like and hard nosed, they will find the rent arrears are paid.  She has an advantage many LL's don't.  And an extremely stupid shortsighted tenant.  Sometimes, I am afraid, people just like to try it on. If the tenant couldn't afford to buy a house, they should have waited until they could, not expect the LL to finance part of their purchase. You'd expect a Deputy Head (who is supposed to be passing on to their students how to behave as adults) to be more responsible.  The tenant chose their career also, with the expectations that beholds.

I think the LL's letter needs to be less 'understanding' it gives the tenant manipulation room.  Just state the legal position.  As I said, if the tenant can't afford to buy a house and pay rent, he shouldn't be buying a house.

If the LL can't see this, that renting a property is a business, and doesn't understand the legal position, maybe they'd be safer selling and investing their money?  It tends to be less hard work. Too many LL's think an LA will do everything for them, as has been explained, they aren't necessarily trained nor equipped to do this even though a LL pays fees every month for a fully managed rental contract.  

Countist

Ok so if she does end up having to go down the CCJ route, what are the potential costs and what are the potential benefits. I think I see it as:

- Legal Fees

+ Rental Arrears
+ Mesne Profits from Overstaying
+ Compensation for loss of tenants(? is this a thing)
+ anything else? compensation for inconvenience? punitive compensation?

and then how could the loss be recovered, I think it was mentioned it could be suggested it taken out of his earnings or a charge put on his property, I've no idea how the latter would work in reality. 

Maybe straying out of home advice and more legal advice now, but I thought it worth a try if anyone's had to do it before.

RAS

Generally the view is that it's not worth the candle, because it is one thing to get the CCJ, another to get the money.

But this guy is employed, presumably the LL knows where he works, and he will have a house, albeit with minimal equity.

Charging orders are of limited use as they are only paid off when the house is sold and if it's jointly owned not necessarily even then.

So an attachment of earning would be more useful, even if it's a tenner a month.

And it's really only the rent and mense costs.

TonyMMM

Countist said:

To be clear, a new tenancy agreement has already been signed with incoming tenants based on the move-out date you provided. 

I hope the landlord has taken advice on the implications of signing that contract and being unable to supply the promised accommodation to the new tenants (could be expensive).

ReadySteadyPop

deannagone said:

While some people have suggested the chances of getting the rent arrears back are unlikely, they are not looking into this situation closely enough.  This tenant is in the process of buying a new place, with a mortgage.  He needs his credit worthiness to not be downgraded right now.  Issuing CCJ proceedings could rearrange his priorities.  Its up to him if he loses his mortgage and house.  Like it was from the beginning.  I suspect if the LL gets a bit more business like and hard nosed, they will find the rent arrears are paid.  She has an advantage many LL's don't.  And an extremely stupid shortsighted tenant.  Sometimes, I am afraid, people just like to try it on. If the tenant couldn't afford to buy a house, they should have waited until they could, not expect the LL to finance part of their purchase. You'd expect a Deputy Head (who is supposed to be passing on to their students how to behave as adults) to be more responsible.  The tenant chose their career also, with the expectations that beholds.

I think the LL's letter needs to be less 'understanding' it gives the tenant manipulation room.  Just state the legal position.  As I said, if the tenant can't afford to buy a house and pay rent, he shouldn't be buying a house.

If the LL can't see this, that renting a property is a business, and doesn't understand the legal position, maybe they'd be safer selling and investing their money?  It tends to be less hard work. Too many LL's think an LA will do everything for them, as has been explained, they aren't necessarily trained nor equipped to do this even though a LL pays fees every month for a fully managed rental contract.  

You would think so, but what if he is lying about his whole situation and just intends to stay in the flat rent free for as long as possible? Did the landlord get a reference from his employer for example? The behaviour doesn`t add up for someone supposedly working as a school head teacher, you see posts on here saying things like "I bought a large ticket item on my credit card, will it affect my mortgage application?" Most people would be being ultra careful until their mortgage is approved and they are in the new house, they wouldn`t be refusing to pay rent and trying to squat in someone`s flat! On a head teacher`s salary you don`t need to dodge rent to make up a deposit IMO.

ReadySteadyPop

TonyMMM said:

Countist said:

To be clear, a new tenancy agreement has already been signed with incoming tenants based on the move-out date you provided. 

I hope the landlord has taken advice on the implications of signing that contract and being unable to supply the promised accommodation to the new tenants (could be expensive).

Yes, that was a very bad move.

Herzlos

deannagone said:

While some people have suggested the chances of getting the rent arrears back are unlikely, they are not looking into this situation closely enough.  This tenant is in the process of buying a new place, with a mortgage.  He needs his credit worthiness to not be downgraded right now. 

But by the time it gets to court and the CCJ issued, he'd presumably already have the mortgage. It may hurt him when his fixed rate expires in 2-5 years but he won't lose the house.

If he's spent the arrears on a deposit and has come close to overextending himself then a repayment could be pretty slow and you may never get it all back. 

I'd be pragmatic here and say to the tenant that you've got a new tenant lined up for the date he provided notice he was leaving on, and if he vacates by then you'll offer him a discount of, say, 25% of the arrears. 
If not, then you'll be pursuing him for the full amount as well as any additional losses due to the delay, potentially having to remarket the rental etc. 


Have you spoken to the new tenants? How do they feel about the potential delay?

Jude57

marcia_ said:

FreeBear said:

Countist said: but a lot of other advice here has been that it may be difficult to recover the money.

File a claim with MCOL for the unpaid rent. There should be plenty of evidence that the money has not been paid. Excuses from the tenant will be looked down upon by a judge, so a ruling in the LL's favour should be a formality.

With a CCJ in hand, apply for an attachment of earning. Alternatively, seek a charging order on the property he purchases, and then initiate bankruptcy proceedings. Yes, it will take a while to claw back the unpaid rent, but it will seriously damage the long term financial prospects of this tenant, and could even throw a spanner in his career.

 Aren't you just a lovely person. 

 Not enough to get a ccj you must make him homeless and lose his job. 

All of the potential routes to ensure payment of the debt the tenant has deliberately accrued would only be actionable if the tenant still fails to pay. It's not likely that the Judge would agree to all the options being instigated at once. It's far more likely, if the tenant even engages with the Court, that they will make an offer of payment, probably a very low amount per month. The landlord should, if the Judge doesn't, request a Means Inquiry where the tenant must reveal their income and expenditure and following which the Judge will order repayment of the debt at a specified amount which could be more (or less) than the tenant's original offer. Only if the tenant defaults on this can the landlord go back to Court to seek an Attachment of Earnings. Such Attachments are set in legislation at specific percentages of earnings and there's little room for negotiation. An employer failing to comply with such an order is liable for severe penalties. The other routes @FreeBear outlines could be taken as alternatives but not together and, in the case of either a Charge against the property or Bankruptcy, it's possible that the landlord would have to wait many years for payment, if indeed they are ever paid at all, bearing in mind that the Mortgage lender gets paid first and within the first few years, their repayment is likely to eat up the vast majority of the sale price achieved.

So yes, being jobless/having serious effects on a future career, homelessness and Bankruptcy are all very serious implications for the tenant but it's his failure to prioritise paying his rent that has put him in danger of those consequences. We all have to pay for the home we occupy, whether that's rent, mortgage or local taxation. Why should this tenant be able to effectively steal thousands of pounds in rental income from a landlord with whom they have a contract and not expect the landlord to enforce the terms of that contract?

Countist

The new tenants are thankfully amenable from what I hear, though may become less so the longer this guy tries to stay.

Unsure what's going on at the moment, the letting agents aren't being very responsive. Tomorrow is techncially move out day so the chances of him moving out then seem slim.

deannagone

I hope your friend is capable of using google to answer the questions you are asking.  You can also phone the courts to get an idea of what the wait time is for a case to go before a court (that will differ depending on the area).

Or they could employ a solicitor that is used to rental property matters.  Again, google is useful, I have heard of a couple of companies, because of TV series.  But I am afraid I do think its time to do some research so they can be responsible for their business and know how to respond.  There are also Landlord forums.  Again, google.  Or you could do a search on here for something like rent arrears.