Faulty Cooker - Seller is refusing to cover disconnection & reconnection - Small Claims Court?

Catriona28

Hello, 

I recently purchased a refurbished (Grade C) cooker from a trader on ebay (not a private individual but a registered business with an ebay shop). 

The oven worked but the hob did not. The cooker came with a 1 year warranty, an engineer was sent to look at it and they ordered a new hob. When this arrived it wasn't the correct part, I was informed that the correct part wouldn't be available for another 3 months so they offered a refund.

I went to check the consumer rights act which states I have a right to refund or replacement and that the trader must cover the cost of disconnection and reconnection. 

I informed them of this and stated I would like a replacement. They told me they had none of the same make and model in stock despite there being 4 units available on the ebay site. 

They have also agreed to cover the cost of disconnection but not reconnection. It is my understanding that they have to cover reconnection even if they just refund and don't replace as otherwise I would be out of pocket for a faulty good I don't even have.

Is this right?
Can I pursue through small claims court? If i do will they then be liable for the court fees as well as the cost?

The exact wording in the consumer rights act is below:

Consumer Rights Act Section 23 - Explanatory Notes
Right to repair or replacement

132.This section details a consumer’s right to insist on repair or replacement of faulty goods, the cost of which must be borne by the trader. This includes the trader bearing any costs involved in the removal of an installed item and reinstallation of a replacement. A replacement would usually need to be identical, that is of the same make and model and if the goods were bought new then the replacement would need to be new.

133.
Once the consumer has opted for a repair or replacement of the goods, he or she may not ask for the other of these, or exercise the short-term right to reject, without first allowing the trader a reasonable time to complete that chosen remedy. However, if waiting a reasonable time would cause the consumer significant inconvenience then the consumer can pursue an alternative remedy without doing so. 

born_again

If they refund for faulty cooker & cover disconnection cost, then you are back where you started. 
if you expect them to pay for reconnection, then that is betterment.

Undervalued

Catriona28 said:

Hello, 

I recently purchased a refurbished (Grade C) cooker from a trader on ebay (not a private individual but a registered business with an ebay shop). 

The oven worked but the hob did not. The cooker came with a 1 year warranty, an engineer was sent to look at it and they ordered a new hob. When this arrived it wasn't the correct part, I was informed that the correct part wouldn't be available for another 3 months so they offered a refund.

I went to check the consumer rights act which states I have a right to refund or replacement and that the trader must cover the cost of disconnection and reconnection. 

I informed them of this and stated I would like a replacement. They told me they had none of the same make and model in stock despite there being 4 units available on the ebay site. 

They have also agreed to cover the cost of disconnection but not reconnection. It is my understanding that they have to cover reconnection even if they just refund and don't replace as otherwise I would be out of pocket for a faulty good I don't even have.

Is this right?
Can I pursue through small claims court? If i do will they then be liable for the court fees as well as the cost?

The exact wording in the consumer rights act is below:

Consumer Rights Act Section 23 - Explanatory Notes
Right to repair or replacement

132.This section details a consumer’s right to insist on repair or replacement of faulty goods, the cost of which must be borne by the trader. This includes the trader bearing any costs involved in the removal of an installed item and reinstallation of a replacement. A replacement would usually need to be identical, that is of the same make and model and if the goods were bought new then the replacement would need to be new.

133.
Once the consumer has opted for a repair or replacement of the goods, he or she may not ask for the other of these, or exercise the short-term right to reject, without first allowing the trader a reasonable time to complete that chosen remedy. However, if waiting a reasonable time would cause the consumer significant inconvenience then the consumer can pursue an alternative remedy without doing so. 

In other words they no longer want you as a customer. That is their right.

As @born_again has said, what they are offering will put you back as you were before they installed the faulty cooker.

Unless, do you mean reconnect your old cooker which they (presumably) had to disconnect before they could connect the new one that turned out to be faulty? If that is the case you might have an argument.

Okell

@Catriona28 -  sorry but it's not clear if you are talking about a refund or a replacement?  I think it makes a difference.

Under the legislation you are entitled to ask for either a repair or a replacement, but if the trader considers the one you ask for is "disproportionate compared to the other", they can offer the other.*

If the item is being replaced by the trader, then my understanding of the legislation would be that the trader has to bear the necessary disconnection and reconnection costs.

But if you have been offered and you are accepting a refund of the original appliance cost plus original connection costs, then I don't think you can claim back connection costs for an item you subsequently buy.

Also I don't think that the explanatory notes actually form part of the legislation - they are just guidance as to how it should be applied.  The reference in note 132 to the trader having to bear the reinstallation costs of a "replacement" refer to a replacement provided by the trader under s23, not to a new item you have purchased yourself to replace the old one with.

[Edit: For clarity, I believe you have misinterpreted explanatory note 132 and that you are wrong to think that the trader must pay the reconnection costs in the case of a refund.  They only have to bear the cost of "reinstallation" where they have supplied a replacement]


*  Obviously if neither a replacement nor a repair is possible then the trader can't realistically do anything else other than offer a refund.  Whether (a) waiting for 3 months for spare parts means a repair is not possible, or (b) the trader saying they have no replacements available when you think they have means a replacement is not possible, I don't know.  I suppose you could always sue for a replacement in small claims but I'm not sure you would have a case.  So far as I'm aware you don't get costs awarded against you in small claims unless the court thinks your case is unreasonable

Catriona28

Hi all - this is useful thank you. 

I disagree though that I am back where I started if they don't fund a reconnection as I have paid for this cooker to be connected in the first place. 

So in the case of a refund, the costs are 

Cost of cooker - £500 
Cost of connection of cooker - £150 
Cost of disconnection of cooker - £150 

If they refund me for the cooker (£500) and cover disconnection (£150), I am £150 out of pocket for no cooker. 

@born_again @Undervalued
 does that still count as betterment?

Catriona28

@Okell
apologies I think my questions were slighty unclear but there were 2

1. Can the trader refuse the request for a replacement? which from what @born_again
 said the answer is yes

2. Are they obliged to cover both disconnection and reconnection? 

If they are only obliged to cover disconnection then that raises the question of the original connection cost, as now I am out of pocket for the connection of a faulty good

Okell

Catriona28 said:

Hi all - this is useful thank you. 

I disagree though that I am back where I started if they don't fund a reconnection as I have paid for this cooker to be connected in the first place. 

So in the case of a refund, the costs are 

Cost of cooker - £500 
Cost of connection of cooker - £150 
Cost of disconnection of cooker - £150 

If they refund me for the cooker (£500) and cover disconnection (£150), I am £150 out of pocket for no cooker. 

@born_again @Undervalued
 does that still count as betterment?

OK - so you've got a refund of £500

But how much in total did you originally pay and how was it itemised?

Okell

@Catriona28 -  having read your last comment again are you saying you paid a total of £800?

ie £500 cost of cooker; plus £150 disconnection of old cooker; plus £150 connection of new cooker.

If so, then presuming you no longer have an old cooker to be disconnected, I think you should have got a refund of £650 because you won't have to pay £150 again to disconnect the old cooker - you've simply got an empty space in your kitchen waiting for a new cooker to be connected

However, as @Undervalued has said, if you are talking about reconnecting your old cooker, that's a different question.

Catriona28

Hi @Okell

So I've paid

£500 - to buy the (faulty) cooker
£150 - connect (faulty) cooker
£150 - disconnect (faulty) cooker

So if they take back the (faulty) cooker and refund me £650 I am £150 out of pocket

born_again

Catriona28 said:

Hi @Okell

So I've paid

£500 - to buy the (faulty) cooker
£150 - connect (faulty) cooker
£150 - disconnect (faulty) cooker

So if they take back the (faulty) cooker and refund me £650 I am £150 out of pocket

So are they not supplying the new cooker?

That is one steep charge to disconnect & reconnect a cooker... 
Would not expect to pay £150 for both.

Alderbank

Thanks, so you've cleared one thing up - no reconnection!
I think you confused us by using the word 'reconnection'.
The seller doesn't have what they consider to be a replacement for you so there was nothing to reconnect.

It's not clear to me exactly what you have paid for:

(a) You paid the eBay trader £800; £500 for the cooker itself, £150 to connect it and £150 to disconnect it?
If so then the trader must refund you the £800 you have paid him.
The Consumer Rights Act says in s20(10) 'To the extent that the consumer paid money under the contract, the consumer is entitled to receive back the same amount of money.'

or (b) You paid the trader £500 for the cooker and your own electrician to connect and disconnect it?
If so then the trader must refund the £500 for the cooker plus your reasonable costs for the electrical work.
The Consumer Rights Act says in s20(8) 'the trader must bear any reasonable costs of returning [the goods]'

I agree with @born_again that charging £300 to connect then disconnect an electric cooker is unreasonable. Disconnecting a cooker and screwing the 45A connection unit faceplate back on is a five minute job, 10 mins at the most.
Connecting a cooker requires a little more work but should include checking that the installation is electrically safe and everything is working properly.

What was the discussion with the electrician when he told you that most of the appliance simply didn't work?