PA1P form (apply for “letters of administration with will annexed") regarding additional PA15 form

hal1044

Hi... My husband passed away in November leaving a Will the executor named in the will (Natwest Bank) no longer wishes to carry out the duties. There are no other executors and I am the sole beneficiary.

I now have to fill in a PA1P form (apply for “letters of administration with will annexed") to take control of the Estate. On Question 3.6 I have chosen "D – Renunciation: The executor has given up their right to apply."  I have to been instructed to fill in a 2nd form that's called 'PA15 renunciation' and have it signed by the former executor (Natwest Bank via their solicitors Hugo James). I visited the bank this morning but they said they can't sign the form.  However, I do already have an official letter from the Bank's solicitor, Hugo James (from the High Court of Justice Family Division) confirming they have renounced the will. Would it be alright to send this letter instead of the PA15 form?  It basically confirms the same information - that they have officially renounced the will, complete with signature, name of witness, etc.  But it will mean not sending the PA15 form that they requested.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Keep_pedalling

Did you husband actually have any assets that need probate? 

hal1044

Yes he had bank accounts and investments approx £100,000.  Our house was jointly owned.

sheramber

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https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-pa15-give-up-probate-executor-rights

Keep_pedalling

I think you will have to send the form to solicitor who sent you the letter, no one in branch would be able to do this.

On the plus side it is good they have renounced,  banks were always the worst choice of executors as their charges were astronomical. If your will was made at the same time you need to make a new one.

Banks and building societies have quite high limits on how much they will pay out without the need for probate so you should be able to release at lease some of his savings before you get probate, and you don’t need it for jointly held assets including the house.

RAS

As K_p suggests, if the house a joint tenancy or tenants in common? If a joint tenancy, you are now the sole tenant.

With regard to the accounts, many will release some money (up to £50k in some cases). on sight of the death certificate and your ID, others on sight of the will and ID. But because the bank was appointed executor, proceeding using the will might lead to short-term issues.

I'd be inclined to list the accounts in value order, contact their bereavement teams and ascertain what they need to release the money and what their limit is? Assume they will need ID including yours and your marriage certificate.

ID and death certificate?
ID, will and letter re renunciation?
ID, will and signed PA15?
ID and probate?

Bear in mind NS&I have the lowest limits. Occasionally they release more than £5k but not often.

hal1044

Keep_pedalling said:

I think you will have to send the form to solicitor who sent you the letter, no one in branch would be able to do this.

On the plus side it is good they have renounced,  banks were always the worst choice of executors as their charges were astronomical. If your will was made at the same time you need to make a new one.

Banks and building societies have quite high limits on how much they will pay out without the need for probate so you should be able to release at lease some of his savings before you get probate, and you don’t need it for jointly held assets including the house.

Ah okay. I was hoping I could just send the solicitor's official renunciation letter, but maybe HMCTS need that specific PA1P form filled in?  I'm just weary about how long it will take waiting for the solicitors to get back.

Thanks for your help. 

hal1044

RAS said:

As K_p suggests, if the house a joint tenancy or tenants in common? If a joint tenancy, you are now the sole tenant.

With regard to the accounts, many will release some money (up to £50k in some cases). on sight of the death certificate and your ID, others on sight of the will and ID. But because the bank was appointed executor, proceeding using the will might lead to short-term issues.

I'd be inclined to list the accounts in value order, contact their bereavement teams and ascertain what they need to release the money and what their limit is? Assume they will need ID including yours and your marriage certificate.

ID and death certificate?
ID, will and letter re renunciation?
ID, will and signed PA15?
ID and probate?

Bear in mind NS&I have the lowest limits. Occasionally they release more than £5k but not often.

Yes it's a joint tenancy.  

A lot of my husband's savings were with NS&I and they have requested Grant of Probate.  That's the main reason I'm applying.  His other savings are mostly ISA accounts with different Building Societies with smaller savings so I might not need it for all of them.

Thanks for the info.

RAS

So for practical purposes you really need probate for the NS&I account. And maybe some of the others? Try to get the smallest ones released first without the PA15 but be aware that there is no consistency in rules. The first two might say no and the next yes, even though it's higher value.

And if your will was written with a bank or legal firm as executors, as a rule, get a new will, even if you've got potentially warring beneficiaries. 

hal1044

Will do! Thanks.

hal1044

Keep_pedalling said:

I think you will have to send the form to solicitor who sent you the letter, no one in branch would be able to do this.

On the plus side it is good they have renounced,  banks were always the worst choice of executors as their charges were astronomical. If your will was made at the same time you need to make a new one.

Banks and building societies have quite high limits on how much they will pay out without the need for probate so you should be able to release at lease some of his savings before you get probate, and you don’t need it for jointly held assets including the house.

EDIT: That should be:

Ah okay. I was hoping I could just send the solicitor's official renunciation letter, but maybe HMCTS need that specific PA15 form filled in?  I'm just weary about how long it will take waiting for the solicitors to get back.

Thanks for your help.