Alzheimers & capacity query

RAS

Was it gifted or did she inherit it from step-dad?

Have you asked a solicitor what documents could form evidence of ownership and enable limited title to be registered? Have you checked the deeds of adjoining properties to identify where the "hole" in the Land Registration is?

Don't know if this still works but there used to be a mechanism by which solicitors in the area could be asked to check whether they had any documents in the names of the owner(s). In this case I'd be looking for files in mum's or step-dad's name. One complication being that some local firms may have closed and their documents been transferred to others. You'd need to identify them and as the Law Society who inherited those files.

sheramber

Superchunk72 said:

marcia_ said:

Superchunk72 said:

My parents always expressed their wish to bequeath their property to their Grandchildren. My Father passed last year & my Mother is 78 with a recent diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease. She is mid stage & will likely require nursing home support in the not to distant future. Unfortunately my parents were reticent to make plans in retirement & my Mother owns her own home but will be liable as a full cost payer when our local authority (Lancashire County Council) assesses her assets when the time comes to move to a nursing home. My wife, children & I live in the adjoining property & would dearly like to hold on to Mum's property & merge them into one with an adjoining door. 

My query is what options are open to us to ensure her home doesn't have to be sold to pay for her care fees? To clarify, is joint ownership a possibility, she can't sign it over to me as the council will deem that to be deprivation of assets, & she can't anyway due to her lacking capacity. We could buy it from her at market value but my age for obtaining a mortgage may be an issue (53 Y/O). To further complicate matters her property doesn't show up on a land registry search as it was gifted to her in 1995 by her Stepfather. 

How can we resolve the land registry issue & keep the property within our family ownership?
Thank you for any ideas.

 You realise you wont get the best care if reliant on social services funding her care? Paying herself you can choose which level of care you want.

 

 And as you say any move to dispose of the property will likely be seen as deprivation of capital anyway especially to giving it to family members. 

I do yes, sadly her limited savings mean a reliance on local authority funded care. In my experience of working in care homes & in adult care, the more expensive options certainly do not mean a higher standard of care, more increased profit margins for owners who employ minimum wage, zero hrs contracted staff

 It when you are self funding you have the choice to pick one that does give better care. 

sheramber

Superchunk72 said:

sheramber said:

There will be title deeds for the property and it will get registered when there is a change of ownership. 

The deeds may be held by the solicitors who dealt with the transfer to her., if she does not have them. 

The solicitors say Mum collected them a number of years ago, however she has no recollection of this now & they are missing ubfortunately

Could she have asked her bank to hold them?

If they are anywhere in the house then you need to follow


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/first-registration-of-title-where-deeds-have-been-lost-or-destroyed/practice-guide-2-first-registration-of-title-if-deeds-are-lost-or-destroyed#:~:text=You%20may%20apply%20for%20first,have%20been%20lost%20or%20destroyed. 

Superchunk72

Albermarle said:

Superchunk72 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

The only option would be to buy it from her, but I can’t see any point on clinging on to is for her GC, as in all likelyhood they would end up selling in anyway. What is the current value? What does she have in the way of other assets? Does anyone hold power of attorney for her?

The value is £400k, I have power of attorney for her. The Grandchildren are aged 6 & 9. Modest savings only.

As PoA you are responsible for making sure anything you do is for the benefit of your Mother.
So keep that in mind before planning any financial shenanigans.

Thankyou Albermarle for your insightful & constructive response. The inference that as a family our motivation is to deprive the local authority of assets is not only crass but also completely inaccurate. As my original post in this thread clearly stated, it was my Parent's wish to leave their home to their Grandchildren. They didn't make the necessary arrangements & she now lacks capacity & I was enquiring whether there were any practical & legal ways to ensure my Mother's preference could be achieved. I know what responsibilities being a POA includes & rest assured my Mother will be afforded the utmost care, love & support.

Syrrika

Unfortunately, there is likely now no way to legally pass the house on to the grandchildren other than purchasing it. You could try making an application to the Court of Protection for approval to give it as a gift, but it is very unlikely that they would grant permission.

Regardless of your intentions or motivation, the local authority will view any disposition of the property, or any part of it, for anything less than its full market value as deprivation of assets and treat it accordingly. Even if you put the house into joint names, they will still view this as deprivation of assets as it will have happened at a time when it is reasonably foreseeable that she will need those funds for her care in the future (which is the usual benchmark they go by).

Even if the property had been gifted years ago, if the grandparents had remained living in it without a rental contract and market rate rent it would not be considered a true gift, so may still have been counted as an asset of hers.

If you do decide to purchase the property it is recommended that you get at least three valuations done, so that you can prove the price you paid was fair if it is ever questioned.

bobster2

Superchunk72 said:

Albermarle said:

Superchunk72 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

The only option would be to buy it from her, but I can’t see any point on clinging on to is for her GC, as in all likelyhood they would end up selling in anyway. What is the current value? What does she have in the way of other assets? Does anyone hold power of attorney for her?

The value is £400k, I have power of attorney for her. The Grandchildren are aged 6 & 9. Modest savings only.

As PoA you are responsible for making sure anything you do is for the benefit of your Mother.
So keep that in mind before planning any financial shenanigans.

Thankyou Albermarle for your insightful & constructive response. The inference that as a family our motivation is to deprive the local authority of assets is not only crass but also completely inaccurate. As my original post in this thread clearly stated, it was my Parent's wish to leave their home to their Grandchildren. They didn't make the necessary arrangements & she now lacks capacity & I was enquiring whether there were any practical & legal ways to ensure my Mother's preference could be achieved. I know what responsibilities being a POA includes & rest assured my Mother will be afforded the utmost care, love & support.

We get a lot of people posting here asking about ways to avoid property being taken into account in local authority financial assessments for care. So regular contributors can get rather cynical.

You say you want to acquire the house for their grandchildren - but in your first post you said you wanted to knock through and combine it with your adjacent house (gifted to you by parents in 2022/24) to create one large house. That'll you'll be living in.

So grandchildren would not be inheriting anything during your lifetime if you do this.