Alzheimers & capacity query

Superchunk72

My parents always expressed their wish to bequeath their property to their Grandchildren. My Father passed last year & my Mother is 78 with a recent diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease. She is mid stage & will likely require nursing home support in the not to distant future. Unfortunately my parents were reticent to make plans in retirement & my Mother owns her own home but will be liable as a full cost payer when our local authority (Lancashire County Council) assesses her assets when the time comes to move to a nursing home. My wife, children & I live in the adjoining property & would dearly like to hold on to Mum's property & merge them into one with an adjoining door. 

My query is what options are open to us to ensure her home doesn't have to be sold to pay for her care fees? To clarify, is joint ownership a possibility, she can't sign it over to me as the council will deem that to be deprivation of assets, & she can't anyway due to her lacking capacity. We could buy it from her at market value but my age for obtaining a mortgage may be an issue (53 Y/O). To further complicate matters her property doesn't show up on a land registry search as it was gifted to her in 1995 by her Stepfather. 

How can we resolve the land registry issue & keep the property within our family ownership?
Thank you for any ideas.

Keep_pedalling

The only option would be to buy it from her, but I can’t see any point on clinging on to is for her GC, as in all likelyhood they would end up selling in anyway. What is the current value? What does she have in the way of other assets? Does anyone hold power of attorney for her?

sheramber

There will be title deeds for the property and it will get registered when there is a change of ownership. 

The deeds may be held by the solicitors who dealt with the transfer to her., if she does not have them. 

marcia_

Superchunk72 said:

My parents always expressed their wish to bequeath their property to their Grandchildren. My Father passed last year & my Mother is 78 with a recent diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease. She is mid stage & will likely require nursing home support in the not to distant future. Unfortunately my parents were reticent to make plans in retirement & my Mother owns her own home but will be liable as a full cost payer when our local authority (Lancashire County Council) assesses her assets when the time comes to move to a nursing home. My wife, children & I live in the adjoining property & would dearly like to hold on to Mum's property & merge them into one with an adjoining door. 

My query is what options are open to us to ensure her home doesn't have to be sold to pay for her care fees? To clarify, is joint ownership a possibility, she can't sign it over to me as the council will deem that to be deprivation of assets, & she can't anyway due to her lacking capacity. We could buy it from her at market value but my age for obtaining a mortgage may be an issue (53 Y/O). To further complicate matters her property doesn't show up on a land registry search as it was gifted to her in 1995 by her Stepfather. 

How can we resolve the land registry issue & keep the property within our family ownership?
Thank you for any ideas.

 You realise you wont get the best care if reliant on social services funding her care? Paying herself you can choose which level of care you want.

 

 And as you say any move to dispose of the property will likely be seen as deprivation of capital anyway especially to giving it to family members. 

Superchunk72

Keep_pedalling said:

The only option would be to buy it from her, but I can’t see any point on clinging on to is for her GC, as in all likelyhood they would end up selling in anyway. What is the current value? What does she have in the way of other assets? Does anyone hold power of attorney for her?

The value is £400k, I have power of attorney for her. The Grandchildren are aged 6 & 9. Modest savings only.

Superchunk72

sheramber said:

There will be title deeds for the property and it will get registered when there is a change of ownership. 

The deeds may be held by the solicitors who dealt with the transfer to her., if she does not have them. 

The solicitors say Mum collected them a number of years ago, however she has no recollection of this now & they are missing ubfortunately

Superchunk72

marcia_ said:

Superchunk72 said:

My parents always expressed their wish to bequeath their property to their Grandchildren. My Father passed last year & my Mother is 78 with a recent diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease. She is mid stage & will likely require nursing home support in the not to distant future. Unfortunately my parents were reticent to make plans in retirement & my Mother owns her own home but will be liable as a full cost payer when our local authority (Lancashire County Council) assesses her assets when the time comes to move to a nursing home. My wife, children & I live in the adjoining property & would dearly like to hold on to Mum's property & merge them into one with an adjoining door. 

My query is what options are open to us to ensure her home doesn't have to be sold to pay for her care fees? To clarify, is joint ownership a possibility, she can't sign it over to me as the council will deem that to be deprivation of assets, & she can't anyway due to her lacking capacity. We could buy it from her at market value but my age for obtaining a mortgage may be an issue (53 Y/O). To further complicate matters her property doesn't show up on a land registry search as it was gifted to her in 1995 by her Stepfather. 

How can we resolve the land registry issue & keep the property within our family ownership?
Thank you for any ideas.

 You realise you wont get the best care if reliant on social services funding her care? Paying herself you can choose which level of care you want.

 

 And as you say any move to dispose of the property will likely be seen as deprivation of capital anyway especially to giving it to family members. 

I do yes, sadly her limited savings mean a reliance on local authority funded care. In my experience of working in care homes & in adult care, the more expensive options certainly do not mean a higher standard of care, more increased profit margins for owners who employ minimum wage, zero hrs contracted staff

KxMx

As POA you have a legal obligation to put your mum's interests ahead of your own desire to retain the property. 

Anything other than a sale at market value (to you or someone else) will be seen as deliberate deprevation of assets by the local authority, and the OPG would also take a dim view.

It's not always about where residental care happens but when is just as important.

My friend had POA for her grandad who lost capacity, needed residental care but la wouldn't pay, gave him 4 care visits a day and pressured family into calling in on top.

Thus began a 3 year nightmare with friend fielding calls all hours of the day & night, multiple professional agencies were involved all said he needs a care home but la wouldn't budge, until a severe fall and the Hospital refusing discharge to anything other than a care setting.

I'm sure you don't want those kinds of issues to deal with while your Mum struggles on without the full time care she needs.

swingaloo

Superchunk72 said:

marcia_ said:

Superchunk72 said:

My parents always expressed their wish to bequeath their property to their Grandchildren. My Father passed last year & my Mother is 78 with a recent diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease. She is mid stage & will likely require nursing home support in the not to distant future. Unfortunately my parents were reticent to make plans in retirement & my Mother owns her own home but will be liable as a full cost payer when our local authority (Lancashire County Council) assesses her assets when the time comes to move to a nursing home. My wife, children & I live in the adjoining property & would dearly like to hold on to Mum's property & merge them into one with an adjoining door. 

My query is what options are open to us to ensure her home doesn't have to be sold to pay for her care fees? To clarify, is joint ownership a possibility, she can't sign it over to me as the council will deem that to be deprivation of assets, & she can't anyway due to her lacking capacity. We could buy it from her at market value but my age for obtaining a mortgage may be an issue (53 Y/O). To further complicate matters her property doesn't show up on a land registry search as it was gifted to her in 1995 by her Stepfather. 

How can we resolve the land registry issue & keep the property within our family ownership?
Thank you for any ideas.

 You realise you wont get the best care if reliant on social services funding her care? Paying herself you can choose which level of care you want.

 

 And as you say any move to dispose of the property will likely be seen as deprivation of capital anyway especially to giving it to family members. 

I do yes, sadly her limited savings mean a reliance on local authority funded care. In my experience of working in care homes & in adult care, the more expensive options certainly do not mean a higher standard of care, more increased profit margins for owners who employ minimum wage, zero hrs contracted staff

But she wont have to rely on just her limited savings will she? She has a house so the local authority are unlikely to fund her care.

bobster2

Superchunk72 said:

My parents always expressed their wish to bequeath their property to their Grandchildren. My Father passed last year & my Mother is 78 with a recent diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease. She is mid stage & will likely require nursing home support in the not to distant future. Unfortunately my parents were reticent to make plans in retirement & my Mother owns her own home but will be liable as a full cost payer when our local authority (Lancashire County Council) assesses her assets when the time comes to move to a nursing home. My wife, children & I live in the adjoining property & would dearly like to hold on to Mum's property & merge them into one with an adjoining door. 

You say they were reticent to male plans - but they have already gifted you one house - right?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6399326/capital-gains-tax-on-a-gifted-property

Keeping one of their 2 properties for themselves during retirement seems like quite a sensible plan.

Albermarle

Superchunk72 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

The only option would be to buy it from her, but I can’t see any point on clinging on to is for her GC, as in all likelyhood they would end up selling in anyway. What is the current value? What does she have in the way of other assets? Does anyone hold power of attorney for her?

The value is £400k, I have power of attorney for her. The Grandchildren are aged 6 & 9. Modest savings only.

As PoA you are responsible for making sure anything you do is for the benefit of your Mother.
So keep that in mind before planning any financial shenanigans.