Winter fuel update 9th June 2025

sheramber

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Freecall said:

I think that the situation posed by Microbe99 is straightforward as discussed they will get £100.

Simple when individuals are living together and being taxed as individuals.

It is the situation with single people that is harder to understand.  How does HMRC know that someones lives alone?

They probably don't know.

But you would have to think DWP will be telling HMRC who was paid what.  If they don't do that then people who have deliberately opted out would end up being taxed.

DWP have addresses for state pension claimants. 

They send out notices of  awards each year.

A single person  does not need to live alone There just needs to be no other state pension  claimant in their household. 

No different from UC claimants having one person household, even if other people live in the same house but they are not a couple. 

My letter for the previous payment said”as someone else is claiming in your household you will get £100.”
My husband got the same letter. 

Previously he had received £200 as the only claimant. 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

sheramber said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Freecall said:

I think that the situation posed by Microbe99 is straightforward as discussed they will get £100.

Simple when individuals are living together and being taxed as individuals.

It is the situation with single people that is harder to understand.  How does HMRC know that someones lives alone?

They probably don't know.

But you would have to think DWP will be telling HMRC who was paid what.  If they don't do that then people who have deliberately opted out would end up being taxed.

DWP have addresses for state pension claimants. 

They send out notices of  awards each year.

A single person  does not need to live alone There just needs to be no other state pension  claimant in their household. 

No different from UC claimants having one person household, even if other people live in the same house but they are not a couple. 

My letter for the previous payment said”as someone else is claiming in your household you will get £100.”
My husband got the same letter. 

Previously he had received £200 as the only claimant. 

All valid points.

But the question was about HMRC knowing, not DWP 🙂

Grumpy_chap

sheramber said:

Freecall said:

I think that the situation posed by Microbe99 is straightforward as discussed they will get £100.

Simple when individuals are living together and being taxed as individuals.

It is the situation with single people that is harder to understand.  How does HMRC know that someones lives alone?

How did they know for the previous system?

Single eligible person household , under 80, got £200

Two eligible people household, under 80, got  £100 each.

My letter said,' as someone else in your household is due WFA you will recieve £100.
My husband's payment was reduced from £200 the previous u=year , to £100 because I was now eligible for payment.

I expect pension details are linked by addresses.

How can "linked by address" work?

There are couples that are one household living in one address.

I assume there are also people above SPA that live in a property with others who are also above SPA, but not as one household.  

GibbsRule_No3.

Do we know how quickly you can opt back in, if you start earning less than £35,000 in a few years?  When the earnings drop below £35,000 will the £200 be paid immediately for that year? Will it be better to just pay the extra tax until it drops below £35,000? More information needed before opting out or staying put. When I stop working I will be easily under the £35,000 but if I’ve opted out will I need to wait a tax year before getting the £200 in November/December. Will it also depend when I stop work during the year. I believe the WFA is usually announced in September for the year.

kaMelo

There is no need to claim or opt in/out, every pensioner who meets the qualifying age in September of that year will receive the WFP automatically.

Then at the end of that tax year those who HMRC assess as having income of £35,000 or more will be asked ro pay their WFP back.

As I understand it, the £35,000 income is a gross figure, the amount of tax you've paid on that income won't change that.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

kaMelo said:

There is no need to claim or opt in/out, every pensioner who meets the qualifying age in September of that year will receive the WFP automatically.

Then at the end of that tax year those who HMRC assess as having income of £35,000 or more will be asked ro pay their WFP back.

As I understand it, the £35,000 income is a gross figure, the amount of tax you've paid on that income won't change that.

I think it's a little more nuanced than that.

It's correct that tax paid won't change anything but it's not necessarily gross earnings.  The government announcement on gov.uk referred to taxable income so if someone is still employed and making pension contributions under the net pay method the gross salary won't be relevant, it will be the taxable pay that is what matters.

Grumpy_chap

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

I think it's a little more nuanced than that.

It's correct that tax paid won't change anything but it's not necessarily gross earnings.  The government announcement on gov.uk referred to taxable income so if someone is still employed and making pension contributions under the net pay method the gross salary won't be relevant, it will be the taxable pay that is what matters.

Is it taxable income, or ANI?

Will continued pension contributions via SS still reduce the taxable income?

Will Gift Aid contributions still reduce the taxable income?

Will SS for an EV still reduce the taxable income?

NorthYorkie

Grumpy_chap said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

I think it's a little more nuanced than that.

It's correct that tax paid won't change anything but it's not necessarily gross earnings.  The government announcement on gov.uk referred to taxable income so if someone is still employed and making pension contributions under the net pay method the gross salary won't be relevant, it will be the taxable pay that is what matters.

Is it taxable income, or ANI?

Will continued pension contributions via SS still reduce the taxable income?

Will Gift Aid contributions still reduce the taxable income?

Will SS for an EV still reduce the taxable income?

Gift Aid does not reduce the figure of taxable income. The relief to which higher rate taxpayers may be entitled is given by means of a reduction in the tax bill after it has been calculated on the taxable income (i.e. that income without any deduction for the gift aid donation.

What doe you mean by 'ANI'?

Dazed_and_C0nfused

NorthYorkie said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

I think it's a little more nuanced than that.

It's correct that tax paid won't change anything but it's not necessarily gross earnings.  The government announcement on gov.uk referred to taxable income so if someone is still employed and making pension contributions under the net pay method the gross salary won't be relevant, it will be the taxable pay that is what matters.

Is it taxable income, or ANI?

Will continued pension contributions via SS still reduce the taxable income?

Will Gift Aid contributions still reduce the taxable income?

Will SS for an EV still reduce the taxable income?

Gift Aid does not reduce the figure of taxable income. The relief to which higher rate taxpayers may be entitled is given by means of a reduction in the tax bill after it has been calculated on the taxable income (i.e. that income without any deduction for the gift aid donation.

What doe you mean by 'ANI'?

ANI is adjusted net income.  Which for most people is total taxable income less gross Gift Aid and relief at source pension contributions.

But the details on gov.uk definitely refer to taxable income, not adjusted net income.  So Gift Aid and relief at source pension contributions won't seemingly be relevant here.

NorthYorkie

Dazed_and_C0nfused Agreed. The Adjusted Net Income is only of relevance if over £60,000 (for recovery of Child Benefit) or over £100,000 (for denial of the personal allowance).