One Parking Solution - Disabled bay without a blue badge, genuine oversight but worth an appeal?

Gr1pr

You need to understand that it's currently an unregulated industry and OOS are one of the worst outfits among the 180 or so parking companies,  using covert CCTV etc

Don't overthink this, just ignore them unless they try a court claim,  no point going over arguments that have raged for 10 years or more 

When the industry is government regulated,  then hopefully things will change,  but that doesn't help you right now

Coupon mad could spend a week or more telling you all about OOS and previous cases and locations,  but her time is better spent on trying to get the legislation implemented after many years of advising the government department 

Nellymoser

Bobthethird said:

Half_way said:

have you complained to the co op? if not pay your complaint on here first

Thanks for the advice I did go into the Co-Op to ask about it and they said they just rent the store and the parking is down to the landlord so they had no control over it. They did say I wasn't the first person to raise a concern though. Is it worth a complaint to the Co-Op head office, suspect they'll pass the buck saying the parking isn't down to them?

It may not be down to them but it will make head office aware of the issue and you're not the only customer to have raised concerns with the store.

A complaint to the Landowner is best. This thread may help
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6337652/how-to-find-details-of-landowner

Gr1pr

For some strange reason,  people seem to believe that the close by businesses own the parking spaces, which I find over the last decade or more is rarely true,  especially when businesses are tenants 

Complaints need to be made to the landlord,  or managing agents,  or landowner,  because the ones with the power to get it cancelled are the same ones who contracted with the parking company,  rarely is it the businesses,  so I believe that the Co-op will pass the buck, not possible by them as tenants,  no control over the sub contractors 

Coupon-mad

I've done an analysis of the signs on this linked thread, using Google Streetview to show that the entrance sign faces the wrong way and there's nothing as you drive in to alert you to that covert CCTV camera:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81493523/#Comment_81493523

You could try an IAS appeal for the LOLs, to waste OPS' time and money and to collect evidence for the Government who are about to finalise the regulation of the rogue parking industry. Rationale here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6611695/lets-enrich-the-ias/p1

Bobthethird

Coupon-mad said:

I've done an analysis of the signs on this linked thread, using Google Streetview to show that the entrance sign faces the wrong way and there's nothing as you drive in to alert you to that covert CCTV camera:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81493523/#Comment_81493523

You could try an IAS appeal for the LOLs, to waste OPS' time and money and to collect evidence for the Government who are about to finalise the regulation of the rogue parking industry. Rationale here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6611695/lets-enrich-the-ias/p1

Many thanks for all the time and effort you're putting in to help us all.

I would happily submit an IAS appeal to waste OPS time and money but assume I have to first engage in the process by appealing to OPS PCN on the basis of inadequate signage, poor bay marking etc then when this is inevitably rejected use the template in the link you've provided to appeal to IAS?

Coupon-mad

Yep.

Somebody actually won at IAS here today!

Bobthethird

Coupon-mad said:

Yep.

Somebody actually won at IAS here today!

So miracles do happen!!

As an initial appeal that is highly likely to be instantly rejected I would welcome any comments on this please if anyone has time? Should I have gone down the covert camera route already, but should it end up in court thought best it's been presented from the very start?

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability for this parking charge and appeal in full

The parking operator bears the burden of proof. It must establish that a valid contract was formed between the operator and the driver and that adequate signage/awareness of the rules is presented to the driver. 

• The signage of the alleged disabled bay is extremely poor, as can be witnessed from the photographs you have provided as your evidence. When a vehicle is parked in either bay it is not possible to determine that either are designated as disabled. This is due to the lack of any visible signage above ground level or beyond the perimeter of the bay itself. Any driver parking into this bay could easily miss the signage especially if another vehicle has just exited. This would only be further compounded if reverse parking
   
• The layout is equally poor and confusing, aside from the a fore mentioned poor signage it is extremely difficult to be distinguish it from a normal parking bay when they are no wider than any other bay and only has a very small area of hatching on one side, this fails to provide adequate suggestion that the bay parked in for the alleged offence is clearly a disabled one. Adding further to the uncertainty of whether this is suitable for any disabled driver/passenger wishing to utilise this parking bay they would have to have prior knowledge about its layout and either reverse park or drive in forwards depending upon which side required the additional required space to suit their needs. This alone makes it unsuitable to be classified as a disabled bay. 

Therefore I would say no contract could wittingly be entered into here as the presentation of the "disabled bay" is very much open to interpretation and I would suspect the majority of people to consider it not fit for such purpose. Furthermore if the signage on the floor was covered I think again the majority of people would struggle to be identify it as a disabled bay as it is adjacent to the "normal" bays which are no different in size. 

I would also question the legality of using covert CCTV cameras at this site as once again the signage is inadequate with no visible signage when turning into the parking area. The signs that are present contain only a vague title "CCTV/ANPR/Mobile parking patrols are in operation" this is equally insufficient to allow entry into any binding contract and fails to comply with The Data Protection Act 2018 and GDPR require that individuals are informed about the processing of their personal data, including images captured by CCTV

It is long established in law that the "Punishment should fit the crime" -  inadvertently parking in in a bay that is deemed by yourselves as suitable for disabled parties yet is very inadequately presented or suitable for such a purpose is in my opinion not worthy of a £100 fine, this is further compounded by the fact the total time the parking bay was occupied is just 183 seconds.  I find it hard to believe his would have greatly inconvenienced any other party wishing to use the parking facilities. Even if any other party wished to use this exact bay they would have only had to wait for a very short period of time for it to be vacated. 

Coupon-mad

"a fore mentioned" is actually one word.

Sorry if I'm wrong but the appeal reads like the horrific Chat GPT wrote it, which we detest. Clear 'bot' wording, IMHO, due to complicated sentences with unnecessarily long words! Never use a bot to write English. It screams AI.

Write it in your own words instead or copy our sentences in our earlier replies.

Bobthethird

Coupon-mad said:

"a fore mentioned" is actually one word.

Sorry if I'm wrong but the appeal reads like the horrific Chat GPT wrote it, which we detest. Clear 'bot' wording, IMHO, due to complicated sentences with unnecessarily long words! Never use a bot to write English. It screams AI.

Write it in your own words instead or copy our sentences in our earlier replies.

Thanks for the feedback and sorry you find it a hard read but apart from the opening two lines which I copied from the linked page you added I wrote all the rest myself

Do you feel the language needs to be more simplistic to get the message across?

Coupon-mad

Yes I do. Apologies!