Wills

bobster2

purplepunto said:

Spendless said:

purplepunto said:

purplepunto said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Depending on the wording of the will and how they owned the property (joint tenants or tenants in common) then either the bequest failed or the grand children are still owed their bequest. 

For example if the will stated that the GC should inherit £10k and the rest to go to her husband and they held their property as tenants in common, then the GC should receive their inheritance from the sale of the property. If it said the same but the property was held as joint tenants then the bequest would fail. 

To answer the question we need to know the wording of the will (personal details redacted) and how the home was owned.

Who were the executors?

Myself and my half sister are executors of the will. It states, apart from some personal belongings that are going to sister, I give the rest of my estate to him for his own use and benefit absolutely. It then says I give the following legacies to my grandchildren and then states how much each grandchild gets.

Forgot to say the house was owned jointly by dad and stepmum

I think you still need to say how the house was owned. Was it as joint tenants or as tenants in common? 

Joint tenants 

Has this been checked conclusively by looking at the title register?

https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2022/11/02/what-kind-of-joint-ownership-do-i-have/

The reason I ask is that with second marriages - a tenants in common (TiC) arrangement is quite common.

And parents might have talked about owning something "jointly" but the paperwork could still say TiC.

Keep_pedalling

bobster2 said:

purplepunto said:

Spendless said:

purplepunto said:

purplepunto said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Depending on the wording of the will and how they owned the property (joint tenants or tenants in common) then either the bequest failed or the grand children are still owed their bequest. 

For example if the will stated that the GC should inherit £10k and the rest to go to her husband and they held their property as tenants in common, then the GC should receive their inheritance from the sale of the property. If it said the same but the property was held as joint tenants then the bequest would fail. 

To answer the question we need to know the wording of the will (personal details redacted) and how the home was owned.

Who were the executors?

Myself and my half sister are executors of the will. It states, apart from some personal belongings that are going to sister, I give the rest of my estate to him for his own use and benefit absolutely. It then says I give the following legacies to my grandchildren and then states how much each grandchild gets.

Forgot to say the house was owned jointly by dad and stepmum

I think you still need to say how the house was owned. Was it as joint tenants or as tenants in common? 

Joint tenants 

Has this been checked conclusively by looking at the title register?

https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2022/11/02/what-kind-of-joint-ownership-do-i-have/

The reason I ask is that with second marriages - a tenants in common (TiC) arrangement is quite common.

And parents might have talked about owning something "jointly" but the paperwork could still say TiC.

It would also be quite common to make a will with an immediate post death interest trust rather than risk your blood line getting absolutely nothing as seems to be the case here. The whole thing seems odd, including the fact that she ended up dying penniless when she clearly had enough savings to leave sums of money to grandchildren when the will was made. 

Spendless

Im wondering if step Mum had £1000s which she considered 'her money' but were in a joint bank account, so again Dad gets everything and not realised the implications of not having money in sole accounts with regards to the will she'd made. 

Guesswork on my part but I think that possibly the OP and half sister (who are joint execs) share the same Dad but have different Mums (just going on Step Mum has left the half sis personal effects), so possibly a long marriage at least 1 child (assuming now an adult) from it and no thought  over the years of how a blended family works.

I despair sometimes at things my parents have done and ask "well wasn't that asked, did no one raise that?' And get the answer 'it was 30 (or more) years ago, no one talked about this, which is why I tend to be inclined to think similar has happened here, no one thought about it. 

bobster2

purplepunto said:

Spendless said:

Im wondering if step Mum had £1000s which she considered 'her money' but were in a joint bank account, so again Dad gets everything and not realised the implications of not having money in sole accounts with regards to the will she'd made. 

Guesswork on my part but I think that possibly the OP and half sister (who are joint execs) share the same Dad but have different Mums (just going on Step Mum has left the half sis personal effects), so possibly a long marriage at least 1 child (assuming now an adult) from it and no thought  over the years of how a blended family works.

I despair sometimes at things my parents have done and ask "well wasn't that asked, did no one raise that?' And get the answer 'it was 30 (or more) years ago, no one talked about this, which is why I tend to be inclined to think similar has happened here, no one thought about it. 

Ive just looked on land registry at dad's and stepmums original property and it was a Leasehold property. So im guessing she left everything to dad, apart from her jewellery and money, that you quite rightly say, she never had. I dealt with all her finances so I saw the small amount she had in the bank and I sorted out all the debt. So I was wondering when my dad passes that he is obliged to give her grandchildren the £10000 each.

By "original property" you mean something other than the property they owned when she died? Either way not sure the leasehold status has any bearing in this.

The key issue is - for the property they owned when she died - in the title register for that property is there a "Form A restriction" that says “No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court.”

Keep_pedalling

purplepunto said:

Spendless said:

Im wondering if step Mum had £1000s which she considered 'her money' but were in a joint bank account, so again Dad gets everything and not realised the implications of not having money in sole accounts with regards to the will she'd made. 

Guesswork on my part but I think that possibly the OP and half sister (who are joint execs) share the same Dad but have different Mums (just going on Step Mum has left the half sis personal effects), so possibly a long marriage at least 1 child (assuming now an adult) from it and no thought  over the years of how a blended family works.

I despair sometimes at things my parents have done and ask "well wasn't that asked, did no one raise that?' And get the answer 'it was 30 (or more) years ago, no one talked about this, which is why I tend to be inclined to think similar has happened here, no one thought about it. 

Ive just looked on land registry at dad's and stepmums original property and it was a Leasehold property. So im guessing she left everything to dad, apart from her jewellery and money, that you quite rightly say, she never had. I dealt with all her finances so I saw the small amount she had in the bank and I sorted out all the debt. So I was wondering when my dad passes that he is obliged to give her grandchildren the £10000 each.

Leasehold / freehold is not the important thing here it is the difference between joint tenants, where a share cannot be willed to anyone it just passes to the surviving owner, or tenants in common where each hold a heritable share. If it was the latter then she did not die insolvent and her GC are entitled to their inheritance. 

If the former then their inheritance fails, and whether your father wants to meet his wife’s wishes by leaving something in his will to those grandchildren is entirely down to him and his conscience. 

If, as it sounds, the house has been already been sold then his conveyance solicitor should be able to confirm how it was held. As an executor you need to confirm this as if you have got it wrong the grandchildren can pursue you for their losses.

Spendless

Can your Dad shed any light on why his wife thought she'd be able to leave £10k to each grandchild?

Is there anything youve overlooked, an insurance policy, a death in service payment (if she was still working). Though I *think* these things sit outside an estate anyway so would also go to your Dad if thats the case 

elsien

There is what he is legally obliged to do, and what he feels is the right thing to do. This may or may not be the same thing.

Spendless

purplepunto said:

Spendless said:

Can your Dad shed any light on why his wife thought she'd be able to leave £10k to each grandchild?

Is there anything youve overlooked, an insurance policy, a death in service payment (if she was still working). Though I *think* these things sit outside an estate anyway so would also go to your Dad if thats the case 

There wasn't a life insurance. We have searched everything. She was in quite a bit of debt. Im guessing she thought there was a chance there may of been some money left from an inheritance she got some years ago., but unfortunately there wasn't 

Ahh  both of those had crossed my mind tbh, as you mentioned debt in a previous post,or I wondered if she was banking on an inheritance that hadn't come to fruition.

You just need to be sure whether they were TIC or Joint tenants as previously mentioned.

I

Spendless

purplepunto said:

Spendless said:

purplepunto said:

Spendless said:

Can your Dad shed any light on why his wife thought she'd be able to leave £10k to each grandchild?

Is there anything youve overlooked, an insurance policy, a death in service payment (if she was still working). Though I *think* these things sit outside an estate anyway so would also go to your Dad if thats the case 

There wasn't a life insurance. We have searched everything. She was in quite a bit of debt. Im guessing she thought there was a chance there may of been some money left from an inheritance she got some years ago., but unfortunately there wasn't 

Ahh  both of those had crossed my mind tbh, as you mentioned debt in a previous post,or I wondered if she was banking on an inheritance that hadn't come to fruition.

You just need to be sure whether they were TIC or Joint tenants as previously mentioned.

I

Spendless said:

purplepunto said:

Spendless said:

Can your Dad shed any light on why his wife thought she'd be able to leave £10k to each grandchild?

Is there anything youve overlooked, an insurance policy, a death in service payment (if she was still working). Though I *think* these things sit outside an estate anyway so would also go to your Dad if thats the case 

There wasn't a life insurance. We have searched everything. She was in quite a bit of debt. Im guessing she thought there was a chance there may of been some money left from an inheritance she got some years ago., but unfortunately there wasn't 

Ahh  both of those had crossed my mind tbh, as you mentioned debt in a previous post,or I wondered if she was banking on an inheritance that hadn't come to fruition.

You just need to be sure whether they were TIC or Joint tenants as previously mentioned.

I

They are definitely joint tenants as I have a copy from the land registry 

Ok, so the bequests to the Grandchildren fail as there was no money. 

No legal obligation on your Dad to leave them anything in his will. Whether he feels morally obliged to is down to him. 

madbadrob

Im curious as to where people are thinking that the deceased left anything to her step daughter/son.  It states everyting to dad and gifts to grand children.  Yes we most definately need to see the wording of the will because from what is above it would seem that dad gets verythig after the gifts to the grandchildren have been paid.  

Rob