Excell Parking - Keying Issue - court :-(

rjpop

Hi All

I've now got to the point where Excell and their legal firm have issued a county court form and I'm beginning to do my defence.

I've a few questions that I hoped people could help me with.

On the day I parked in the car park, in atrocious weather conditions (it was during one of those storms before Christmas 2024). I attempted to enter my full registration plate, but after repeated attempts, I only managed to enter the first 2 characters. As the machine validated this and allowed me to proceed, I assumed that this was like other machines I'd used and was fine. I struggled to read signage due to poor visibility in those conditions.

A month later when I got the letter through telling me to pay £60 from Excell, I honestly thought they'd made a mistake. I sent them a copy of my ticket and said I thought it was an honest mistake and their parking attendant must of struggled to see it through the windscreen in that weather. They've since doubled the charge and now added Legal fees, so it's coming out at approximately £230.

So I've a few questions:

1. I've read that £20 is supposed to be a reasonable charge in this circumstance by the BPA (Excell not a member). Is there anyway to get Excell to settle for that?

2. Is this a major or minor keying issue?

3. Can I request information from the parking company e.g. an audit of tickets bought from that machine in the time period specified.

4. Can I request all the software source code and configuration installed on the machine I bought the ticket on and is it a valid defence to show how simple number plate validation is in their software (i.e. it almost has to be deliberate these days not to use it).

5. Should I mention the weather conditions in my defence and say that the photos of my car provided by Excell show it to be very wet?

6. Finally is there anyway to make go away without paying the fine or going to court (I tried my MP but she couldn't help and I've no idea who the landowner of the car park is).

Thanks in advance!

Gr1pr

1) possibly,  at the mediation stage,  but start at £10 if you want to negotiate a settlement,  , or dont offer a penny,  your choice 

2) it's not a keying error if it's a machine fault,  besides which if they received full payment,  why should they get more  ?

3) you can put them to strict proof,  which happens at the WS stage 

4) I doubt it , but see 3 above 

5) leave that for the WS, your defence rebuts the POC 

6) it's either mediation,  court, or a discontinuance 

Ps, it's definitely not a fine,  its a parking charge notice,  a pcn  ( invoice   )

Magistrates issue fines,  but no Magistrates are involved here

Car1980

Presumably the rain on the screen was a problem. And by problem, I mean their problem.
 

Remember the onus is on them to prove their claim, so you don't need any of the machine info. It's not a speeding ticket. 

Just use the template defence and put a brief couple of sentences as paragraph 3. Your explanation of what happened, your photo of the ticket and a bank statement showing payment can wait for the witness statement.

You can include this in your witness statement to demonstrate how Excel clog up the court with ridiculous claims
https://authory.com/DavidWalsh/Excel-Parking-Sheffield-firm-ordered-to-pay-pound10k-after-fining-driver-pound11k-using-five-minute-rule-ab1c4bba07fb74299b71e4989b98dbf2f?c=c6486ed676f8f461ca30f31e153f19932

Coupon-mad

after repeated attempts, I only managed to enter the first 2 characters.

Don't describe this as your fault in your defence. Don't even call it a keying error. 

It's a well known machine fault, search for newspaper articles and the video by Lynda Eagan showing how Excel and ECP's machines do this.

@kryten3000 might recall which newspaper article her video was in this year. There were a flurry of articles about Excel & ECP faulty machines.

rjpop

Car1980 said:

Presumably the rain on the screen was a problem. And by problem, I mean their problem.
 

Remember the onus is on them to prove their claim, so you don't need any of the machine info. It's not a speeding ticket. 

Just use the template defence and put a brief couple of sentences as paragraph 3. Your explanation of what happened, your photo of the ticket and a bank statement showing payment can wait for the witness statement.

You can include this in your witness statement to demonstrate how Excel clog up the court with ridiculous claims
https://authory.com/DavidWalsh/Excel-Parking-Sheffield-firm-ordered-to-pay-pound10k-after-fining-driver-pound11k-using-five-minute-rule-ab1c4bba07fb74299b71e4989b98dbf2f?c=c6486ed676f8f461ca30f31e153f19932

Hi 

Will it be a problem that I paid cash and not with a bank card?

I've still got the ticket and their camera records show me entering and leaving the car park in the time allowed by the ticket.

I repeatedly pressed the key to enter the rest of my registration plate number. It simply didn't allow be to do so. So I pressed the enter button and it gave me a ticket. The ticket said Pay & Display. So I displayed it in the windscreen. 

I started my defence, it's already at 11 short paragraphs and 368 words. Is that too much to go in the template?

Gr1pr

Sounds more like a WS,  not a defence,  your 2 or 3 defence paragraphs will be slotted in, save any stories etc for your WS in several months time,  a brief couple of sentences is not 11 paragraphs and not 368 words

Payment is Payment,  regardless of the method of payment,  you are alleging that it was a machine fault,  a common problem 

rjpop

Gr1pr said:

1) possibly,  at the mediation stage,  but start at £10 if you want to negotiate a settlement,  , or dont offer a penny,  your choice 

2) it's not a keying error if it's a machine fault,  besides which if they received full payment,  why should they get more  ?

3) you can put them to strict proof,  which happens at the WS stage 

4) I doubt it , but see 3 above 

5) leave that for the WS, your defence rebuts the POC 

6) it's either mediation,  court, or a discontinuance 

Ps, it's definitely not a fine,  its a parking charge notice,  a pcn  ( invoice   )

Magistrates issue fines,  but no Magistrates are involved here

Is the fact that the tickets they issue clearly see "Pay & Display" on them in large type, inferring that you should display them prominently in your car, make any argument they have about camera not detecting reg plates numbers in the tickets a little bit baseless, as the expectation from the customer should be that the tickets should be checked and on display.

rjpop

Gr1pr said:

Sounds more like a WS,  not a defence,  your 2 or 3 defence paragraphs will be slotted in, save any stories etc for your WS in several months time,  a brief couple of sentences is not 11 paragraphs and not 368 words

Payment is Payment,  regardless of the method of payment,  you are alleging that it was a machine fault,  a common problem 

Would this be good for para 3:

3. Referring to the POC: paragraph 1 is denied. The Defendant is not indebted to the Claimant. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant does not accept that a contravention occurred on 18/12/2024, as alleged.  Whilst the Defendant is the registered keeper, paragraphs 3 and 4 are denied. The Defendant is not liable and has seen no evidence of a breach of prominent terms.  The quantum is hugely exaggerated (no PCN can be £100 on private land) and there were no damages incurred whatsoever.

3.1 The Defendant parked in the car park, purchased a ticket from the machine for a price £3 and left before the ticket expired. The defendant repeatedly attempted to enter their vehicles full registration plate into the ticket machine. On pressing the number 6 button, no action occurred and the key was unresponsive. The defendant pressed the enter button and the machine issued him with a ticket containing the first part of the defendant's vehicles registration plate. The ticket said it was “Pay and Display” so the defendant displayed the ticket prominently in his vehicles windscreen.

Gr1pr

Paragraph 3, the figure is not £100, most pcns tend to be £100 at the moment,  that figure is usually £170, not £100

Coupon-mad

Certainly do not change it to £100!

kryten3000

Coupon-mad said:

@kryten3000 might recall which newspaper article her video was in this year. There were a flurry of articles about Excel & ECP faulty machines.

Sorry I've been offline for a few days, I'm pretty sure Lynda's video was on BBC local news and only available for 24 hours but will see what I can find