Best option to replace Economy 10 old storage heaters?

Brassicakeys

Just moved in and looking to replace some very old storage heaters. I've experienced old storage heaters before and found all the heat was gone by the time I was back from work in the evening. 

Climastar came round and gave me a whole song and dance about their electric radiators. Super expensive. Told me I absolutely should replace my storage heaters with their electric radiators and change from an Economy 10 meter. I’d be willing to pay the extra if I knew it was 100% worth it.
I’ve seen a few things about Dimplex Quantum heaters, and it seems like it would be a cheaper and easier option as I could keep my Economy meter. However, would I still run the risk of all the heat being lost before evening?

What is best? 

ChaunceyGardiner

DO NOT fit electric radiators. HHR storage heaters, such as Quantums, are a vast improvement on the old type. A heat pump would be better still.

Stubod

We recently fitted a Quantum that replaced a 25 year old SH.....soooo much better, and offers much better control. They are still providing heat well into the evening, where the old radiator gave up the ghost by mid afternoon. 

You certainly should NOT consider electric radiators, they are expensive to buy, and very expensive to run!! (May be worth a search on this forum for "Fisher Heaters" and the like....).

QrizB

Stubod said:

You certainly should NOT consider electric radiators, they are expensive to buy, and very expensive to run!! (May be worth a search on this forum for "Fisher Heaters" and the like....).

Not wanting to blow my own trumpet, but see here for example costs:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78557202/#Comment_78557202

@Brassicakeys are you definitely on Economy 10 and not E7 or one of the other multi rate tariffs? Which supplier are you with?

lohr500

As per @ChaunceyGardiner comment : 

I am no expert, but here are my thoughts.

I would stay well clear of Climastar or any other electric radiator system that doesn't operate on an off-peak rate storage heater principle.

Don't get drawn into the smoke and mirror presentations about how efficient they are thanks to being filled with clay, moon dust or any other magic ingredient!!! 

In broad terms, any direct electrical heater is 100% efficient, be it the cheapest £13 convector heater from Argos, through to the very expensive new "wonder" radiators being sold by the likes of Climastar.

Short of burning £5 notes in the grate, direct electric heating will be the most expensive way to keep warm, irrespective of how "clever" or attractive the high end heaters may appear.

Depending on budget, property layout, how you heat your hot water,etc, there are several options.

The lowest cost option in the short term would be to trial the existing old style storage heaters through one winter  and see if you can get on with them. Possibly getting them checked over by a good electrician to make sure all the heating elements are OK and that the flap thermostats are working.

Next would be to consider replacing the old storage heaters with new style High Heat Retention storage heaters, like the Quantum range. The wiring may need changing though as your old heaters may only have a single off-peak only supply controlled by the Economy 10 meter switching system. I understand Quantums can work on a single sire supply with some modification at the fuse box end.But they then rely on their built in timers to trigger when the off-peak time starts/stops, so it then becomes important to make sure the settings stay aligned with the actual off-peak switching times from the meter.
Also, I suspect Quantums are designed to work best on basic Economy 7, rather than Economy 10, although someone with more experience can perhaps comment on this.

Other options would include moving to an Air Source Heat pump with wet radiators, or possibly several Air to Air units depending on the size/layout of the property. Subject to eligibility criteria, there is currently a £7500 grant available for installing a heat pump system, but not for Air to Air units.

   https://www.gov.uk/apply-boiler-upgrade-scheme/check-if-youre-eligible 

Suppliers like Octopus do heat pump installations and you could probably get a quote from them.

A heat pump installation will be more disruptive than upgrading the storage heaters as there will be radiator pipework to run around the house and more likely than not changes to the hot water cylinder.

Brassicakeys

QrizB said:

Stubod said:

You certainly should NOT consider electric radiators, they are expensive to buy, and very expensive to run!! (May be worth a search on this forum for "Fisher Heaters" and the like....).

Not wanting to blow my own trumpet, but see here for example costs:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78557202/#Comment_78557202

@Brassicakeys are you definitely on Economy 10 and not E7 or one of the other multi rate tariffs? Which supplier are you with?

Currently with octopus energy - I have two meters, the Economy 10 one for storage heaters, and a Smart Meter for other electrics. Recently had my smart meter installed as I discovered I initially had an RTS meter which needed to be replaced. Engineer confirmed with me then that I have an Economy 10 meter 

20122013

From my experience, after I had replaced my old storage heaters with electric heater (it was recommended by an electrician), this had lowered my EPC rating to an 'E' 

Scot_39

Could literally be chalk and cheese difference between old and new NSH depending on generation..

As there are several interim levels of NSH tech / functionality between the oldest and modern top line HHR - inc modern cheaper non HHR - and various states in between (room thermostat not core, fan assisted, hybrid with secondary heating elements etc etc).

Do you know what the model / type as fitted in new home is ? 

There may be a user here with experience of that model who may be able to advise based on specific experience.

And if you want an upgrade - but want to save a few £100 per heater - either try second hand - or modern lot 20 non HHR - something like Glen Dimplex owned Creda TSRE or Dimplex's own non HHR model - might be worth a punt for less demanding users / home locations.  

And it might - if not too disruptive to decoration etc - be worth maybe just changing say main space heater - say the living room - and see how that suits - before doing all in the property.

I seriously thought about getting a cheaper option quote - based on Credas for my hallways - that I would only use to maintain a low steady temp 24/7.  

If its a flat or small property and it holds heat well - and you only want it sitting comfort hot a couple of hours a day - you might save on flat rate and cheap (not fancy) panel heater upgrades vs decent multirate and NSH - but most probably wont.

And especially if going to be a low heat user - and have immersion tank hot water - dont forget to factor in the year round costs of tariff changes for HW. 

In a mild winter year - my year round HW energy consumption comparible if not more than my winter space heating.

And get tariff / type / meter / heater type wrong - as the QrizB examples show - it could get relatively expensive - even if dont use the full 10MWh used in those calcs.  

(The median TDCV for all electric is a lower 3900 kWh - 3.9 MWh - but the median TDCV for duel fuel gas consumption is 11,500 kWh - 11.5 MWh )

QrizB

Brassicakeys said:

WhatQrizB said:

Stubod said:

You certainly should NOT consider electric radiators, they are expensive to buy, and very expensive to run!! (May be worth a search on this forum for "Fisher Heaters" and the like....).

Not wanting to blow my own trumpet, but see here for example costs:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78557202/#Comment_78557202

@Brassicakeys are you definitely on Economy 10 and not E7 or one of the other multi rate tariffs? Which supplier are you with?

Currently with octopus energy - I have two meters, the Economy 10 one for storage heaters, and a Smart Meter for other electrics. Recently had my smart meter installed as I discovered I initially had an RTS meter which needed to be replaced. Engineer confirmed with me then that I have an Economy 10 meter 

That's curious for a couple of reasons.

1. Octopus don't offer Economy 10.

2. Your smart meter would normally have replaced both old meters.

It would be interesting to know exactly which tariff is being applied to each of your meters!

Scot_39

Re Octopus / E10

Sure I did read at least one if not 2 user posts here - some years ago now admittedly - who had what could be the the same old twin meter configuration - normal plus E10 - and Octopus - when a smaller outfit - had agreed to bill them on their standard e7 rates.

I almost thought about calling them - but was concerned I might end up on e7 and then - like my elderly neighbours found had to - using plugs in's at peak rates in evenings given my old heaters.

RedFraggle

If you install Quantums you won't need E10. They hold the heat well enough not to need the extra top up.