New laptop - Windows Free.

Xenon

Eyeful said:

1. The two Linux operating systems (called distros), for beginners are (a) Linux Mint (b) Zorin. These two will look similar to Windows.

2. I am writing this on a computer that is over 7 years old has BIOS. It is dual boot running both Windows 10 and Linux Mint. 

3.  A friend bought a new Windows computer with UEFI instead of BIOS, they are finding loading Linux Mint on to it a problem.

4. Have you thought about buying a cheap second hand Windows computer (with BIOS) and loading a Linux distro onto it?

5. You can buy computers with Linux pre-installed from "The Linux Shop" or from "Entroware".

6. Chromebooks have a Linux operating systems.

Does your friend have secure boot enabled - if yes turn it off then they can turn back on after install

Frozen_up_north

While by no means certain, be careful with laptop auxiliary/utility programs. One previous laptop that I upgraded to a later version of Windows developed a charging problem, or rather control of charging where you specify charging to 80%, slower charge rate, etc. to increase battery life expectancy. It also lost the backlight control.

When I contacted the manufacturer they said the drivers were not compatible with the later version of Windows and there was nothing they could suggest, other than returning to the original version of Windows as pre-installed on the laptop!

A friend used to be the head of IT for a large organisation with hundreds of desktops and quite a lot of laptops, he said to be careful over the same issue of compatibility with other operating systems on laptops, or upgrading them. Desktop PCs tend to be fairly generic and less of an issue.

Most that run Linux tend to reuse an old Windows machine, that might otherwise end up in a skip, so driver issues are not relevant, or at most just a bit aggravating.

You can buy new desktop PCs without an operating system, not sure the same applies to buying a new laptop though.

mksysb

you can get a Dell preinstalled with linux

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-uk/000138246/linux-on-dell-desktops-and-laptops

onomatopoeia99

Eyeful said:

RavingMad said:

As an "old schooler", why are you wanting to get away from Windows? What does Linux offer?

Linux offers:
1. More privacy than Window 10 or Windows 11..
2. Being able to decide if and when I install updates.
3. Not having Copilot forced upon on me.
4. Not having what I am doing on my computer being sent back to HQ every few seconds.
5. Faster loading times for my 7 year old computer. 

The pro versions of Windows also offer this natively, though the GUI to configure it is somewhat arcane, so I have done and my Windows instances only upgrade when I tell them. Similarly copilot can be turned off through the same interface.

My linux instances are all debian (not "debian based") and since I don't remember to run apt update / upgrade very often I use the unattended-upgrades package and let it install them automatically and reboot overnight when required.

DullGreyGuy

prowla said:

• Most OS's have office tools (word processor, spreadsheet), but if you specifically need MS Word and Excel (and no others are 100% compatible, not even MS Office on a Mac), then you need Windows.

What parts of MS Office for Mac are not compatible when passing files back to Windows user @prowla

There are a few features missing from the Mac version, like stepping through formulas, and a few odd bits like not being able to create gradient fills (yet it displays them and you can copy paste them) but with many years of using a Mac with MS Office never had problems with sharing files with Windows users and that includes some very large complex spreadsheets created by actuaries. 

TheSkints said:

As an old schooler I do not do much streaming (apart from Youtube) - so need a laptop with some decent memory storage as I plan to transfer my library from my old HD.

I had to update my previous laptop a couple of times so I wouldn't want anything less than 16gb of RAM and then the memory to be at 1TB if possible (certainly 512 minimum) SSD or a combination of the two. I mainly just watch movies and listen to music . . . so decent graphics and sound card a must. 

Lastly, can anyone foresee any problems with trying a new OS? I will be a beginner at that.

I have read that certain makes of laptop can be a real PITA and not that compatible with Linux etc.

As an old schooler would have thought you knew the difference between memory and storage. 

Why do you need decent graphics card and sound card? Movies dont need a decent graphics card, and having one won't add anything to the movie. Music doesnt need a decent sound card unless you have a suroundsound setup but in most cases that would just be a passthrough to an external decoder anyway. 

"The problem" is if you dont like the OS what other options you may have with installing other OS on the machine. The other is you may have particular applications you want or need to use that may not be supported by your choice of new OS.

I've tried Linux a couple of times, originally RedHat then Ubuntu, but this was a long time ago and for me there was too much having to go back to the command prompt to do stuff. I strongly suspect they have come on a long way since but haven't left the need to go and try again. 

Mrs wanted a Mac many years ago so thats what we got, then getting other Apple devices I ultimately replaced my laptop with Apple. Personally, the hardware is great, most the integration between devices is outstanding but the OS is just different rather than markably better or worse. Having now gotten an Apple CPU there is no option, the laptop must run MacOS, though can run non-Mac virtual machines. 

Eyeful

1. Linux distros (a) Linux Mint (b) Zorin are both suitable for beginners new to Linux and will remind them of Windows.
2. All they OP would need is a USB of at least 8GB, which they may already have. You can get a 64GB SanDisk for about £10.
3. Instruction of how to download & install either of these distros, onto a Windows computer are on YouTube.
4. If the OP finds he does not like either distro or they are unsuitable for him, then he can buy a new computer.

£10 against the cost of buying a new computer is I think well worth investigating. After all this is a Money Saving Expert forum. 

prowla

DullGreyGuy said:

prowla said:

• Most OS's have office tools (word processor, spreadsheet), but if you specifically need MS Word and Excel (and no others are 100% compatible, not even MS Office on a Mac), then you need Windows.

What parts of MS Office for Mac are not compatible when passing files back to Windows user @prowla

There are a few features missing from the Mac version, like stepping through formulas, and a few odd bits like not being able to create gradient fills (yet it displays them and you can copy paste them) but with many years of using a Mac with MS Office never had problems with sharing files with Windows users and that includes some very large complex spreadsheets created by actuaries. 

TheSkints said:

As an old schooler I do not do much streaming (apart from Youtube) - so need a laptop with some decent memory storage as I plan to transfer my library from my old HD.

I had to update my previous laptop a couple of times so I wouldn't want anything less than 16gb of RAM and then the memory to be at 1TB if possible (certainly 512 minimum) SSD or a combination of the two. I mainly just watch movies and listen to music . . . so decent graphics and sound card a must. 

Lastly, can anyone foresee any problems with trying a new OS? I will be a beginner at that.

I have read that certain makes of laptop can be a real PITA and not that compatible with Linux etc.

As an old schooler would have thought you knew the difference between memory and storage. 

Why do you need decent graphics card and sound card? Movies dont need a decent graphics card, and having one won't add anything to the movie. Music doesnt need a decent sound card unless you have a suroundsound setup but in most cases that would just be a passthrough to an external decoder anyway. 

"The problem" is if you dont like the OS what other options you may have with installing other OS on the machine. The other is you may have particular applications you want or need to use that may not be supported by your choice of new OS.

I've tried Linux a couple of times, originally RedHat then Ubuntu, but this was a long time ago and for me there was too much having to go back to the command prompt to do stuff. I strongly suspect they have come on a long way since but haven't left the need to go and try again. 

Mrs wanted a Mac many years ago so thats what we got, then getting other Apple devices I ultimately replaced my laptop with Apple. Personally, the hardware is great, most the integration between devices is outstanding but the OS is just different rather than markably better or worse. Having now gotten an Apple CPU there is no option, the laptop must run MacOS, though can run non-Mac virtual machines. 

I've seen colours not match and formulae anomalies like you say; I'm guessing if you use Mac proprietary fonts too.

Menu options may not tally (but then again they don't from one Windows version to the next!).

That said, it has been a while since I've been swapping files back and forth (in both directions).

it is in that last .05% of compatibility, which is why I specified the 100%.

If you're using the tool for collaborative work then you don't want to get sidetracked into faffing about with inconsistencies.

TheSkints

outtatune said:

This is one of the few situations where I would not recommend buying a refurbished Lenovo.

Their screens are made to display emails and Excel workbooks and Powerpoint presentations. Their customers aren't interested in watching movies as the OP says is their use case, so they simply don't have the contrast, brightness and so on to make it a pleasant experience.

Good point. My dad has a Lenovo - and it's still going strong after 5+ years - so certainly well made.

I was thinking I might be better going with a cheaper end gaming laptop (without overkill on the RAM) as I presume they are made for visuals?

TheSkints

Eyeful said:

RavingMad said:

As an "old schooler", why are you wanting to get away from Windows? What does Linux offer?

Linux offers:
1. More privacy than Window 10 or Windows 11..
2. Being able to decide if and when I install updates.
3. Not having Copilot forced upon on me.
4. Not having what I am doing on my computer being sent back to HQ every few seconds.
5. Faster loading times for my 7 year old computer. 

My reply would have pretty much included the first 4 points, so thanks for that 

I should add that I don't like the idea of a Chromebook for similar reasons. I don't do Google any more and yes I use (open source) Organic Maps for any navigation help. 

TheSkints

prowla said:

sheenas said:

You could away buy an apple or chrome based system as being the only really viable alternatives IMHO. The issue is your are simply changing from Microsoft to another company i.e. Apple or Google. I have used Linux for over 30 years for various projects and wasted much of my time installing alternative to windows products. If its simply email and browsing then maybe a chrome book, but if that was the case why have a laptop in the first place? 

My main PC (which I am using now) is running Linux and it is no more intensive to configure and use that MacOS and Windows.

However, you do implicitly make a good point, ie. are there any specific applications you need to run?

• Most OS's have adequate email & web browsing apps.
• Most OS's have office tools (word processor, spreadsheet), but if you specifically need MS Word and Excel (and no others are 100% compatible, not even MS Office on a Mac), then you need Windows.
• Paint & drawing tools?
• etc.

If you do have oddments you need, then you can use "virtual machines" to run a self-contained computer in a dedicated window.

• I have one running Microsoft Office on Windows 7 and another on Windows 10.
• I even have one running Windows XP, for compatibility with a couple of old pieces of hardware

Of course, that could be meandering into techie-land, but the point is that running legacy applications need not be a ball and chain.

I don't want to go off point on my own thread but I have been using LibreOffice for years and it's always been cross compatible with MS Office things I've had to deal with in the past.

According to their website there is also a Linux version.

For editing (paint and drawing) I've been using GIMP (just checked their website and again there appears to be a Linux compatible download).

Not sure about Virtual Machines, but it's something for me to look into in case I run into any problems. But as I have moved away from MS products in recent years I might not have such an issue if I can find a laptop that doesn't have (m)any problems with Linux (Mint most probably).

Now Skype is dead. The only MS app I currently still use (occasionally) is Teamviewer - so if I can get that working (or find a Linux alternative that I can install on the only devices I need to connect to) then the job should be a good one.