Permanent ponding on flat roof due to structural subsidence

Imvrasos

AST tenant in share of freehold top floor flat, England.

Building has a flat roof and is suffering permanent ponding in the non summer months due to the roofplate subsiding. Guttering does exist but purely cosmetic as the roof is effectively a bowl-like basin. This causes water ingress along hairline cracks on my ceiling, creating damp and mould, also water has directly leaked inside the living space in the past.

The only solution applied by the management company, is to lay new strips of felt on the roof during spring, which does stop the water penetrating the masonry for a few months, only for the problem to manifest again usually in the winter.

I have challenged this ineffective patching and asked for the roof subsidence causing the ponding to be properly fixed, only to be met with excuses in the fashion of 'it will cause huge costs' and 'we would have to get signatures from all flat owners'.

I have even cited the UK Building Regulations which demand proper roof drainage. I have also mentioned the British Standard BS 6229:2018 which stipulates a max 24 hour tolerance on the ponding and was only met with the above deadlock excuses by the management company.

I am looking for advice on what are the various escalation options, maybe per the different aspects of the problem, such as the living conditions, the structural safety, the structure violating national regulations?

youth_leader

Good luck, I am unable to offer any advice but greatly sympathise.  I hope you can persuade the other freeholders to join in with your request but cost will be high as you will have to have the wooden structure and angle of drainage changed?.  

user1977

Imvrasos said:

I have even cited the UK Building Regulations which demand proper roof drainage. I have also mentioned the British Standard BS 6229:2018 

Are either of those relevant? They might apply to new buildings, I don't see why they would be retrospectively applied to what I presume is a relatively old roof.

grumpy_codger

How deep is the 'bowl'? I think, ponding isn't uncommon for big flat roofs and doesn't cause problems with good hydro insulation / waterproofing.
And, IMO, felt isn't the one that is 'good'. There are better solutions.

eddddy

Imvrasos said:

Share of freehold top floor flat, England.

If the freehold is owned by a company, do the articles of association (or other binding document) say how disputes between the joint freeholders should be resolved?

If the freehold id jointly owned by (up to 4) individuals, do you have a Declaration of Trust in place that says how disputes between the joint freeholders should be resolved?

Imvrasos said:

I am looking for advice on what are the various escalation options, maybe per the different aspects of the problem, such as the living conditions, the structural safety, the structure violating national regulations?

Typically, a situation like this might be resolved by instructing a building surveyor to report on the roof, and recommend how it should be fixed.

Ideally, you want the joint freeholders to...

• Agree on the choice of building surveyor
• Agree to share the building surveyor's fee
• Commit to agreeing to the repairs recommended by the building surveyor, and sharing the cost

If they won't agree to something like that, I guess you might have to consider 'going legal' - and getting a court order instructing them to repair the roof.

Or there's also a concept of "self help" which might be relevant. See: https://www.lease-advice.org/article/self-help-a-useful-option-for-the-unhappy-leaseholder/

Imvrasos

user1977 said:

Imvrasos said:

I have even cited the UK Building Regulations which demand proper roof drainage. I have also mentioned the British Standard BS 6229:2018 

Are either of those relevant? They might apply to new buildings, I don't see why they would be retrospectively applied to what I presume is a relatively old roof.

Thanks to all posters for the replies, while I am no expert on civil and structural engineering regulation, the quoted standards simply state what I think is common sense for a country of such a climate. The building was erected in the 90s.

Imvrasos

grumpy_codger said:

How deep is the 'bowl'? I think, ponding isn't uncommon for big flat roofs and doesn't cause problems with good hydro insulation / waterproofing.
And, IMO, felt isn't the one that is 'good'. There are better solutions.

I lack physical access to the roof but it seems deep at places, could well exceed 10-12cm. After a shower the whole roof is effectively flooded, and at some point in autumn the pool achieves seasonal permanence after the evaporation rate collapses, usually in November.

Agree just laying felt strips every spring is an 'ineffective patching' approach, and also does not address the long term water perforation and degradation of the underlying masonry. Hence the structural nature of the problem, apart from drainage.

Imvrasos

eddddy said:

Imvrasos said:

Share of freehold top floor flat, England.

If the freehold is owned by a company, do the articles of association (or other binding document) say how disputes between the joint freeholders should be resolved?

If the freehold id jointly owned by (up to 4) individuals, do you have a Declaration of Trust in place that says how disputes between the joint freeholders should be resolved?

Imvrasos said:

I am looking for advice on what are the various escalation options, maybe per the different aspects of the problem, such as the living conditions, the structural safety, the structure violating national regulations?

Typically, a situation like this might be resolved by instructing a building surveyor to report on the roof, and recommend how it should be fixed.

Ideally, you want the joint freeholders to...

• Agree on the choice of building surveyor
• Agree to share the building surveyor's fee
• Commit to agreeing to the repairs recommended by the building surveyor, and sharing the cost

If they won't agree to something like that, I guess you might have to consider 'going legal' - and getting a court order instructing them to repair the roof.

Or there's also a concept of "self help" which might be relevant. See: https://www.lease-advice.org/article/self-help-a-useful-option-for-the-unhappy-leaseholder/

Apologies I will add the fact I am an AST tenant, as for the legal structure of the compound, I only know the flats are leasehold with a share of freehold.

<<If they won't agree to something like that, I guess you might have to consider 'going legal' - and getting a court order instructing them to repair the roof.>>

And that's the core of my query I thank you for that. While I always try to resolve disputes communicably and constructively, I am exploring my options. From my layman's point of view investigation so far, I don't see a clear path for an AST tenant.

user1977

No, I think as a tenant you can only really expect the property to be kept watertight, and it's up to your landlord to sort that out one way or another.

brianposter

Ideally you would treat getting the repairs done as a joint venture with your landlord. 

eddddy

Now that you've explained that you're a tenant and not a leaseholder, you should only really be dealing with your landlord.

If your landlord fails to get the damp/leak fixed, you can consider reporting the problem to your local council housing team. They might do an inspection, and serve an improvement notice on your landlord.


It's up to your landlord to argue / persuade / take legal action against the joint freeholders - not you.

In fact, the joint freeholders could legitimately refuse to discuss the matter with you, as you aren't a joint freeholder or leaseholder.