Tomato in trouble - credit

masonic

tlcgrantham said:

@masonic If the Provisional Order is confirmed is that the End of Tomato? Could they be bought by say Octopus?

Confirmation will lead Ofgem issuing a notice to remedy the issues (I think they get 3 months) after which the licence could be revoked (60 day process). With various delays they could still be trading in the autumn, but not long beyond that if they don't sort out their issues.

If they go under, some other supplier will be SoLR. Octopus is probably big enough now not to go to the trouble for such a small increase in customers. Though if nobody bids, a large supplier will be forced into it.

masonic

HillStreetBlues said:

masonic said:

Trading while technically insolvent is unlawful I believe, but an unscrupulous firm can limp along for quite a while in that state.

It depends a company can trade when insolvent if there is hope company can be saved or at least it's not making it worse.

I think that should still involve going into administration, the primary aim of which is to rescue the company as a going concern.

tlcgrantham

masonic said:

tlcgrantham said:

@masonic If the Provisional Order is confirmed is that the End of Tomato? Could they be bought by say Octopus?

Confirmation will lead Ofgem issuing a notice to remedy the issues (I think they get 3 months) after which the licence could be revoked (60 day process). With various delays they could still be trading in the autumn, but not long beyond that if they don't sort out their issues.

If they go under, some other supplier will be SoLR. Octopus is probably big enough now not to go to the trouble for such a small increase in customers. Though if nobody bids, a large supplier will be forced into it.

Thanks that’s very helpful info. Unless I’m missing something Tomato Lifestyle customers could well be still making hay until December and possibly beyond even if they don’t survive. 

MWT

tlcgrantham said:

masonic said:

tlcgrantham said:

@masonic If the Provisional Order is confirmed is that the End of Tomato? Could they be bought by say Octopus?

Confirmation will lead Ofgem issuing a notice to remedy the issues (I think they get 3 months) after which the licence could be revoked (60 day process). With various delays they could still be trading in the autumn, but not long beyond that if they don't sort out their issues.

If they go under, some other supplier will be SoLR. Octopus is probably big enough now not to go to the trouble for such a small increase in customers. Though if nobody bids, a large supplier will be forced into it.

Thanks that’s very helpful info. Unless I’m missing something Tomato Lifestyle customers could well be still making hay until December and possibly beyond even if they don’t survive. 

I doubt they could avoid administration for that long as continuing to trade while insolvent puts the Directors at risk of getting landed with personal liability for the debts.

Ofgem rarely have to ride out the full term of each step in the process as the appointment of the Administrator's is the usual trigger to terminate their licence. 

masonic

tlcgrantham said:

masonic said:

tlcgrantham said:

@masonic If the Provisional Order is confirmed is that the End of Tomato? Could they be bought by say Octopus?

Confirmation will lead Ofgem issuing a notice to remedy the issues (I think they get 3 months) after which the licence could be revoked (60 day process). With various delays they could still be trading in the autumn, but not long beyond that if they don't sort out their issues.

If they go under, some other supplier will be SoLR. Octopus is probably big enough now not to go to the trouble for such a small increase in customers. Though if nobody bids, a large supplier will be forced into it.

Thanks that’s very helpful info. Unless I’m missing something Tomato Lifestyle customers could well be still making hay until December and possibly beyond even if they don’t survive. 

Unlikely beyond November. Remember also that Elexon is following a process too and that could trigger an expulsion before the Ofgem process plays out (this could be a way for the two organisations to get around the delays at the end). Given the leniency shown so far, it would be surprising to see a change of tack.

MWT

tlcgrantham said:

@masonic If the Provisional Order is confirmed is that the End of Tomato? Could they be bought by say Octopus?

There is nothing worth buying in Tomato, the software they use is a service provided by the parent, Senapt, the customers can be more cheaply acquired through the SoLR process as that avoids any liability for the debts Tomato have run up.

Bendo

MWT said:

tlcgrantham said:

@masonic56.4 If the Provisional Order is confirmed is that the End of Tomato? Could they be bought by say Octopus?

There is nothing worth buying in Tomato, the software they use is a service provided by the parent, Senapt, the customers can be more cheaply acquired through the SoLR process as that avoids any liability for the debts Tomato have run up.

And of course if the software was any good, they would likely be in a better position.  Senapt are probably no better off financially,  if they were their accounts wouldn't be overdue by 6 months.

MWT

Bendo said:

MWT said:

tlcgrantham said:

@masonic56.4 If the Provisional Order is confirmed is that the End of Tomato? Could they be bought by say Octopus?

There is nothing worth buying in Tomato, the software they use is a service provided by the parent, Senapt, the customers can be more cheaply acquired through the SoLR process as that avoids any liability for the debts Tomato have run up.

And of course if the software was any good, they would likely be in a better position.  Senapt are probably no better off financially,  if they were their accounts wouldn't be overdue by 6 months.

£5.7m of software expenses paid by Tomato during 2023 alone may have somewhat helped Senapt's position as their software service provider...

Generally speaking, having a poor financial position isn't a reason to delay filing of accounts, there are many other reasons which may or may not apply in this case though, so it will be interesting to read the auditors report when the accounts are eventually filed.