Recommendations for private health insurance for two company directors

RakeshS

Hi all,

My business partner and I would like to set up a private health insurance policy for myself, him and his family.

I'm single and he's got a wife and three kids. We're both in our 40s.

Are there any providers who stand-out from the pack?
What kind of features should I be looking at?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Thanks,

Rakesh.

Jaco70

Can I piggy back your post and ask a related question of my own please.

We don’t have private health insurance, either personally or through our small limited company. My dad (founder and still working director) is 80 and requires a cataract op. Cost 3 to 4 grand.

Could the company pay for this, as it could be claimed that it affects his ability to work, and therefore affects the business. 

Bookworm225

Jaco70 said:

Can I piggy back your post and ask a related question of my own please.

We don’t have private health insurance, either personally or through our small limited company. My dad (founder and still working director) is 80 and requires a cataract op. Cost 3 to 4 grand.

Could the company pay for this, as it could be claimed that it affects his ability to work, and therefore affects the business. 

the company could, but it would be a benefit in kind and he would be liable for personal tax on it and the company would incur NI on it.

upshot: he gains no advantage either way 
he will incur the same rate of income tax on earnings as he will on the BIK
at his age there is zero employee NI
But the company will pay the same rate of employers NI on his earnings as it will on his BIK
everything equals out.

as it appears to be a pre existing condition will he actually get medical insurance cover???????

daveyjp

Jaco70 said:

Can I piggy back your post and ask a related question of my own please.

We don’t have private health insurance, either personally or through our small limited company. My dad (founder and still working director) is 80 and requires a cataract op. Cost 3 to 4 grand.

Could the company pay for this, as it could be claimed that it affects his ability to work, and therefore affects the business. 

If its needed has't he been referred to a local centre on NHS?  My mum has had both eyes done over the last 3 years and in both cases it was following an optician visit and appointment within a few days,

Jaco70

Bookworm225 said:

Jaco70 said:

Can I piggy back your post and ask a related question of my own please.

We don’t have private health insurance, either personally or through our small limited company. My dad (founder and still working director) is 80 and requires a cataract op. Cost 3 to 4 grand.

Could the company pay for this, as it could be claimed that it affects his ability to work, and therefore affects the business. 

the company could, but it would be a benefit in kind and he would be liable for personal tax on it and the company would incur NI on it.

upshot: he gains no advantage either way 
he will incur the same rate of income tax on earnings as he will on the BIK
at his age there is zero employee NI
But the company will pay the same rate of employers NI on his earnings as it will on his BIK
everything equals out.

as it appears to be a pre existing condition will he actually get medical insurance cover???????

Thank you.
No, I'm not talking about taking out insurance, simply paying for the op. Which is only 3 - 4 thousand pounds, and is in and out the same day.
My mum had it a few years ago, privately.

Jaco70

daveyjp said:

Jaco70 said:

Can I piggy back your post and ask a related question of my own please.

We don’t have private health insurance, either personally or through our small limited company. My dad (founder and still working director) is 80 and requires a cataract op. Cost 3 to 4 grand.

Could the company pay for this, as it could be claimed that it affects his ability to work, and therefore affects the business. 

If its needed has't he been referred to a local centre on NHS?  My mum has had both eyes done over the last 3 years and in both cases it was following an optician visit and appointment within a few days,

I think the optician automatically put him on the NHS waiting list, but it takes years.
My mum had one cataract done privately, then waited for the NHS when she needed another, but eventually gave up and is now having the second one done in the same private hospital.
Its not a good state of affairs, particularly for people without savings, but its the reality today unfortunately.

DullGreyGuy

RakeshS said:

My business partner and I would like to set up a private health insurance policy for myself, him and his family.

I'm single and he's got a wife and three kids. We're both in our 40s.

Are there any providers who stand-out from the pack?
What kind of features should I be looking at?

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Have you done the sums given the extra personal taxes you will have to pay? Certainly when I was looking it was much better getting personal policies rather than through the company. The only time where that wouldnt be true is if you guys arent the main shareholders but even then it simply washes its face. 

In addition to taxes, our quote for an SME policy was much more than a personal policy. Things are different if you have hundreds of employees etc. 

Most providers are broadly similar offering a range of policies from the very basic to the full fat. Features to look for depends on what level of cover you want? Do you want it for covering almost all illnesses or just major issues? You can choose not to have outpatient cover so you pay for the initial consultations etc but then the insurance pays for the operation and the inpatient care after or you can have it all covered. You can limit your choice of hospitals for a lower premium but check which hospitals are around you and if that would allow you to use them or not. 

Jaco70 said:

Bookworm225 said:

Jaco70 said:

Can I piggy back your post and ask a related question of my own please.

We don’t have private health insurance, either personally or through our small limited company. My dad (founder and still working director) is 80 and requires a cataract op. Cost 3 to 4 grand.

Could the company pay for this, as it could be claimed that it affects his ability to work, and therefore affects the business. 

the company could, but it would be a benefit in kind and he would be liable for personal tax on it and the company would incur NI on it.

upshot: he gains no advantage either way 
he will incur the same rate of income tax on earnings as he will on the BIK
at his age there is zero employee NI
But the company will pay the same rate of employers NI on his earnings as it will on his BIK
everything equals out.

as it appears to be a pre existing condition will he actually get medical insurance cover???????

Thank you.
No, I'm not talking about taking out insurance, simply paying for the op. Which is only 3 - 4 thousand pounds, and is in and out the same day.
My mum had it a few years ago, privately.

This is the problem of hijacking someone else's thread that you confuse people especially when its not even on the same topic of using your business to buy PMI

The answer is still the same, it would be considered an employee perk and so he would have to log it as BIK and pay income tax on it. 

Technically there are certain ways around it however the cost of doing all that will be much more than the tax you'll pay on the BIK

Bookworm225

Jaco70 said:

Bookworm225 said:

Jaco70 said:

Can I piggy back your post and ask a related question of my own please.

We don’t have private health insurance, either personally or through our small limited company. My dad (founder and still working director) is 80 and requires a cataract op. Cost 3 to 4 grand.

Could the company pay for this, as it could be claimed that it affects his ability to work, and therefore affects the business. 

the company could, but it would be a benefit in kind and he would be liable for personal tax on it and the company would incur NI on it.

upshot: he gains no advantage either way 
he will incur the same rate of income tax on earnings as he will on the BIK
at his age there is zero employee NI
But the company will pay the same rate of employers NI on his earnings as it will on his BIK
everything equals out.

as it appears to be a pre existing condition will he actually get medical insurance cover???????

Thank you.
No, I'm not talking about taking out insurance, simply paying for the op. Which is only 3 - 4 thousand pounds, and is in and out the same day.
My mum had it a few years ago, privately.

does not alter the position, payment is still a BIK and company subject to NI 
he will not save money by getting the company to pay

BTW your claim that it affects his ability to work would be dodgy grounds because the ability to see is not reserved only for work purposes. As such the cost would "duality of purpose" since he uses his eyes in his private life. Potentially therefore, as duality of purpose is an all or nothing, ie. the entire cost might actually be wholly disallowed as a business expense.

DullGreyGuy

Bookworm225 said:

Jaco70 said:

Bookworm225 said:

Jaco70 said:

Can I piggy back your post and ask a related question of my own please.

We don’t have private health insurance, either personally or through our small limited company. My dad (founder and still working director) is 80 and requires a cataract op. Cost 3 to 4 grand.

Could the company pay for this, as it could be claimed that it affects his ability to work, and therefore affects the business. 

the company could, but it would be a benefit in kind and he would be liable for personal tax on it and the company would incur NI on it.

upshot: he gains no advantage either way 
he will incur the same rate of income tax on earnings as he will on the BIK
at his age there is zero employee NI
But the company will pay the same rate of employers NI on his earnings as it will on his BIK
everything equals out.

as it appears to be a pre existing condition will he actually get medical insurance cover???????

Thank you.
No, I'm not talking about taking out insurance, simply paying for the op. Which is only 3 - 4 thousand pounds, and is in and out the same day.
My mum had it a few years ago, privately.

 As such the cost would "duality of purpose" since he uses his eyes in his private life. Potentially therefore, as duality of purpose is an all or nothing, ie. the entire cost might actually be wholly disallowed as a business expense.

On the basis its being declared as BIK surely its just an employee perk and as such duality is irrelevant?

Having done a little work in PMI space, for Corporate policies its not uncommon for a claim to be out of scope of the policy but for the company to instruct the insurer to pay the claim on the promise of reimbursement; though this from an employee perspective would just be BIK on the insurance. 

Similarly a former employer used to give every employee a £1,500 Xmas gift, it was declared and BIK paid and clearly it was 100% an employee benefit with no potential business use. 

Bookworm225

DullGreyGuy said:

Bookworm225 said:

Jaco70 said:

Bookworm225 said:

Jaco70 said:

Can I piggy back your post and ask a related question of my own please.

We don’t have private health insurance, either personally or through our small limited company. My dad (founder and still working director) is 80 and requires a cataract op. Cost 3 to 4 grand.

Could the company pay for this, as it could be claimed that it affects his ability to work, and therefore affects the business. 

the company could, but it would be a benefit in kind and he would be liable for personal tax on it and the company would incur NI on it.

upshot: he gains no advantage either way 
he will incur the same rate of income tax on earnings as he will on the BIK
at his age there is zero employee NI
But the company will pay the same rate of employers NI on his earnings as it will on his BIK
everything equals out.

as it appears to be a pre existing condition will he actually get medical insurance cover???????

Thank you.
No, I'm not talking about taking out insurance, simply paying for the op. Which is only 3 - 4 thousand pounds, and is in and out the same day.
My mum had it a few years ago, privately.

 As such the cost would "duality of purpose" since he uses his eyes in his private life. Potentially therefore, as duality of purpose is an all or nothing, ie. the entire cost might actually be wholly disallowed as a business expense.

On the basis its being declared as BIK surely its just an employee perk and as such duality is irrelevant?

Having done a little work in PMI space, for Corporate policies its not uncommon for a claim to be out of scope of the policy but for the company to instruct the insurer to pay the claim on the promise of reimbursement; though this from an employee perspective would just be BIK on the insurance. 

Similarly a former employer used to give every employee a £1,500 Xmas gift, it was declared and BIK paid and clearly it was 100% an employee benefit with no potential business use. 

I am looking at it from the perspective that in Jaco80's question the person is director/founder.
BIK is a given,
My flag is whether the cost is allowable for corporation tax, would the company have paid the direct medical bill of a "mere" employee?
In the example you cite, the Christmas "gift" is clearly a taxable pay bonus payable to all