Complicated will - partners with kids

poseidon1

ButterCheese said:

poseidon1 said:

ButterCheese said:

Thank you all, this has given me a lot to think about. I guess I shouldn't be too obsessed with who is paying in what, as we both live here and contribute equally in our own way.

I do remember deciding at the solicitors that it would be 50/50 joint tenants.

My partners view is that I moved in with her knowing about all the debt, which is true, so I will get over it.

The 24 grand was the only sticking point. Basically, her ex through her out and gave her their rental property. He said she could have all of the child benefits (though not in writing), so she used that for 6ish years to help live.

When we moved 6 years later, he was harassing her via text, they argued, she verbally agreed to pay him back half of all the child benefit, so that was why we have a mortgage. But that is something she needed to do, I can't turn the clock back, so I'll need to get over it

If you are correct on 50/50 joint tenant ownership of the house on purchase rather than tenants in common, you are aware that means on 1st death full ownership of the house reverts automatically to the survivor regardless of what Wills might state to the contrary.

I do wonder if your partner is aware that if she dies first, her half of the property may never be accessible to her own children, in the event you either then die intestate or choose to cut them out of your will. Of course there is a similar outcome if you die first ( ie your child potentially cut out of your half of the property).

Given there are children on each side ( whose exsistence surprisingly appear late in this thread as an afterthought) , seems you both have some planning to think about to ensure they are not unfairly disadvantaged by your joint lack of forethought with regard to the structure of the jointly owned property and lack of Wills.

So maybe this has all been nothing to worry about then i.e. if it's 50/50 then you are suggesting that we have no say in home ownership should one of us die?  We might have to draw something new up with the solicitor then, as my son would be ok (he could live with his mum, my ex) and also he'd inherit my other property which I now rent out.  But should my partner die, her boys would legally have no inheritance but for my goodwill.  Something to think about

Of course you have a say and choices regarding outcomes on death, what you both seemed to have failed to do is properly consider your long term financial plans together and the impact of such plans on respective children. 

You don't seem to know why you chose joint tenants ownership of the house originally, despite the fact that tenants in common would have been the most appropriate arrangement.  This could have been down to the solicitor failing to properly explain your options, or you both not appreciating the difference. The point is your current ownership structure can be changed ( quite simply) to tenants in common, so that your respective shares can be properly addressed in your wills. 

However, prior to all that, start with considering whether you are committed enough for marriage and if so how you will treat personally owned assets prior to marriage ie pre -nups.

 You started this thread on what would be a fair financial  outcome ( for you) with regard to  your mortgage contributions but you have much wider and more complex issues to consider which requires you both to put your heads together and plan properly for your future and respective families going forward. As an example, do you have life cover in place to pay off mortgages  for both properties in the event of premature death and  are you both adequately funding pension arrangements?

All in all, alot to think about.

saajan_12

Two issues here - (A) what share you each (want to) get from the property and (B) what happens upon first death

(A) Property Shares
How much did partner contribute from the sale proceeds less the debt? If that's greater than your contribution on day 1, then not sure why you're complaining about the debts? 
Then re the ongoing monthly contributions, there's not a huge amount of difference between your respective amounts. A chunk of this will be interest not paying off capital. 
So ending up at 50/50 is not too far off the mark. Things will continue to fluctuate eg if there's any major works done, if you want to overpay the mortgage, etc so unless there's a big difference in the contributions, 50/50 might be easiest. 

(B) What happens upon death
As joint tenants, the property would go to the surviving partner. If you have prior children, then its worth weighing up if Tenants in Common is more suitable.
Then upon first death, unless one side can buy the other out, the property would likely have to be sold, so the proceeds can be split 50/50 between the child(ren) of the deceased and the surviving partner. However this has the downside that the surviving partner likely has to move out and find other accommodation. You could specify a life interest eg 50% of the property is willed to the deceased's child(ren) but the surviving spouse has the right to live there for £0 or £x rent for their lifetime, and only then would the property be sold. 

Savvy_Sue

ButterCheese said:

poseidon1 said:

ButterCheese said:

Thank you all, this has given me a lot to think about. I guess I shouldn't be too obsessed with who is paying in what, as we both live here and contribute equally in our own way.

I do remember deciding at the solicitors that it would be 50/50 joint tenants.

My partners view is that I moved in with her knowing about all the debt, which is true, so I will get over it.

The 24 grand was the only sticking point. Basically, her ex through her out and gave her their rental property. He said she could have all of the child benefits (though not in writing), so she used that for 6ish years to help live.

When we moved 6 years later, he was harassing her via text, they argued, she verbally agreed to pay him back half of all the child benefit, so that was why we have a mortgage. But that is something she needed to do, I can't turn the clock back, so I'll need to get over it

If you are correct on 50/50 joint tenant ownership of the house on purchase rather than tenants in common, you are aware that means on 1st death full ownership of the house reverts automatically to the survivor regardless of what Wills might state to the contrary.

I do wonder if your partner is aware that if she dies first, her half of the property may never be accessible to her own children, in the event you either then die intestate or choose to cut them out of your will. Of course there is a similar outcome if you die first ( ie your child potentially cut out of your half of the property).

Given there are children on each side ( whose exsistence surprisingly appear late in this thread as an afterthought) , seems you both have some planning to think about to ensure they are not unfairly disadvantaged by your joint lack of forethought with regard to the structure of the jointly owned property and lack of Wills.

So maybe this has all been nothing to worry about then i.e. if it's 50/50 then you are suggesting that we have no say in home ownership should one of us die?  We might have to draw something new up with the solicitor then, as my son would be ok (he could live with his mum, my ex) and also he'd inherit my other property which I now rent out.  But should my partner die, her boys would legally have no inheritance but for my goodwill.  Something to think about

Definitely something to think about, as is the possibility - however remote - that your ex might die before you. A decent solicitor will of course cover all these 'what if' questions for each of you.