Worth going to court?

FKIW99

Sorry this will be a long one but obviously need to include all the details for you lovely lot to help me  

I bought a secondhand Toyota Rav 4 in October 24. It’s an 09 plate 106000 miles. 

The sale started on the wrong foot, the car garage was an hour and a half drive from me, I spoke to the salesman and said I’d be coming on the set day to buy it, it’s a long journey, if the car is as they have said I will definitely want to take it away then as not wanting to drive back and forth. When my husband and I arrived the car had 3 bald tyres, and was not in a state ready for sale, a different salesman said they though I was just looking at it but I said I was completely clear with the other person that we wanted to buy it and take it away. So that was annoying as we then had to wait for 3 hours whilst they put on new tyres etc. 
Then when almost home I noticed a noise coming from the front passenger tyre area, I recorded the sound and sent it to the garage, they sent someone the next day to pick up the car, sort the noise and then brought the car back. Great! I thought 😬.

In march this year a load of alarm systems went of and the car went into limp mode. The warning light that came on was related to the exhaust. On further inspection it became apparent that there was a large part of the exhaust missing from the car! There was a large pipe hole in the silencer and then nothing, no pipe or back box! I then looked at pictures of the car from the day we bought it and compared to other pics of same car, and it can be clearly seen that there was never an exhaust when I bought it. It had always smelt a bit fumey, but I had always thought it was just because it was an old car. 

I contacted the garage on WhatsApp, sent the pictures, they first argued that they wouldn’t have sold it without the exhaust as they have all cars up on the ramp, but then eventually offered to fit a new one. By this point I had spoken to citizens advice and knew that they could have the opportunity to fix the problem at no expense or significant inconvenience to me. They collected the car and had it for 3 weeks. They then insisted I collected the vehicle. When my husband picked it up a salesman said “it’s got an exhaust now!”.

i thought this was the end of it but fast forward to May and the cars MOT was due. It passed but an advisory is that the back box is touching the rear bumper and beginning to melt it. Now in my eyes that shows the problem was not sorted to a satisfactory standard. I spoke to citizens Advice again to update them on the situation and they agreed that I could now use my right to reject the vehicle as it wasn’t roadworthy when sold and the subsequent attempt to fix the issue hasn’t be done to a satisfactory standard. I used a template from citizens advice and sent a letter asking for a refund etc, I had a reply from a motor consultancy of which the garage is a member of. I have gone back and forth with this consultancy, who has been condescending and rude. I understand that as it’s been over 6 months it is down to me to prove the car was unroadworthy at point of sale which I have and sent through the pictures. He says they require an actual report. I don’t believe this is the case. He also argues that as the mot was passed and the issue with the back box is only an advisory that it’s not an issue, as it may or may not need to be fixed. The garage has offered for me to take the vehicle to them and they will look at damage and repair if needed, but I feel that they have had their chance of a repair, and they haven’t done it to a satisfactory standard. I don’t trust their competency. At no point have they apologised for selling me a vehicle that was potentially slowly poisoning myself and children, and was actually in an illegal state to drive. 

Citizens advice have said to proceed to court, but I’m just unsure if i Would win. 

The car was £2995.

many thanks if you’ve read this far 😩

sheramber

What court and what would your claim  be?

FKIW99

Small claims court to reject the vehicle and get a refund (possibly less the mileage I’ve put on the car which is fine).

Aylesbury_Duck

No, I don't think it's worth going to court.  If you do, leave out the emotional stuff about the car slowly poisoning you and your children unless you have medical evidence to show that is the case.  Have you been to see a GP with respiratory problems, for example?  The garage appear to be willing to fix things, and a 16 year old car with 100k miles is never going to be without problems.  Proving those problems were there at the point of sale and were undeclared is your challenge if you do take it to court.

I find it hard to believe that the car was sold without half of the exhaust.  It was probably an old, possibly holed exhaust that finally gave up the ghost and fell off, triggering the warning light.  I presume it came with an MOT that showed roadworthiness on the date of the test?  What date was that in relation to your purchase date?

FKIW99

Last mot was 6 months before I bought it. You can honestly see in pictures that there was no exhaust when it was sold. I’d it had fallen off I would have heard it and seen it as it was missing a large pipe and back box and it broke down a mile from my house on a straight road, I would have found it/seen it. I wouldn’t do all the emotional bits if I did go to court, just the facts. Consumer rights act only gives one chance for a problem to be rectified. 

Also the car never made an exhausty type loud sound, it always sounded the same throughout. 

Wonka_2

FKIW99 said:

Last mot was 6 months before I bought it.

Lesson 1 in car buying is always insist on a fresh MOT - if they refuse then either walk away or arrange your own. 

TBH £3k is bargain basement territory from a dealer and certainly not worth driving hours for. If you’re wanting reliable, cheap motoring then you want to be buying from a local dealer you’ve built a relationship with. 

IMO you’d be better throwing any court time/money at fixing what you’ve got rather than trying to get justice 

Aylesbury_Duck

If you're determined to pursue it, you could send a letter before action setting out your requirement for a mileage-depreciated refund.  If the dealer consents, you've done well.  If they don't, you'll have to decide whether to pursue it to court, with the cost and delay that will involve.  From other threads on here, the current waiting time is many, many months.  You'll have to get the car fixed at your own cost if you want to continue to use it while awaiting court proceedings.

FKIW99

Wonka_2 said:

FKIW99 said:

Last mot was 6 months before I bought it.

Lesson 1 in car buying is always insist on a fresh MOT - if they refuse then either walk away or arrange your own. 

TBH £3k is bargain basement territory from a dealer and certainly not worth driving hours for. If you’re wanting reliable, cheap motoring then you want to be buying from a local dealer you’ve built a relationship with. 

IMO you’d be better throwing any court time/money at fixing what you’ve got rather than trying to get justice 

I had asked if they had MOT’d it in the week leading up to the sale and the salesman said yes. When I asked again when we were there she said no because it wasn’t due for 6 months. They said they could inly
do it if it was within 3 months of the MOT being due. I stupidly believed them and didn’t realise this wasn’t true? 

PHK

Aylesbury_Duck said:

No, I don't think it's worth going to court.  If you do, leave out the emotional stuff about the car slowly poisoning you and your children unless you have medical evidence to show that is the case.  Have you been to see a GP with respiratory problems, for example?  The garage appear to be willing to fix things, and a 16 year old car with 100k miles is never going to be without problems.  Proving those problems were there at the point of sale and were undeclared is your challenge if you do take it to court.

I find it hard to believe that the car was sold without half of the exhaust.  It was probably an old, possibly holed exhaust that finally gave up the ghost and fell off, triggering the warning light.  I presume it came with an MOT that showed roadworthiness on the date of the test?  What date was that in relation to your purchase date?

I agree with this.  OP you have consumer rights but if it did go to court, the court would take the age, your mileage  and price of the car into account. 

It is unlikely a 16 year old car would be fault free especially one towards  the lower end of the price range (trade guides show £2,000 to £6,000). 

So in court you'd need to prove either that the fault was present at the time of sale or that it should have been faulty free for longer. I think that's a very difficult thing to do. 

Aylesbury_Duck

FKIW99 said:

Wonka_2 said:

FKIW99 said:

Last mot was 6 months before I bought it.

Lesson 1 in car buying is always insist on a fresh MOT - if they refuse then either walk away or arrange your own. 

TBH £3k is bargain basement territory from a dealer and certainly not worth driving hours for. If you’re wanting reliable, cheap motoring then you want to be buying from a local dealer you’ve built a relationship with. 

IMO you’d be better throwing any court time/money at fixing what you’ve got rather than trying to get justice 

I had asked if they had MOT’d it in the week leading up to the sale and the salesman said yes. When I asked again when we were there she said no because it wasn’t due for 6 months. They said they could inly
do it if it was within 3 months of the MOT being due. I stupidly believed them and didn’t realise this wasn’t true? 

But you had access to the MOT records at the time.  That was the time to walk away unless they provided a fresh MOT.

TELLIT01

I don't think there would be any point in going to court.  It's an old car and things are expected to go wrong.  The exhaust contacting the bumper could have been caused by a loose clamp and simply going over a speed bump.

Personally, had I arrived and discovered a car that I potentially wanted to at least test drive had 3 bald tyres I would have walked away at that point.