Changing agents- I believe old agents provided a fraudulent "Introductions list" !

km1500

Maybe it is just me but I'm not sure what the problem is

The list is correct - that is a complete  list of people they have "introduced" to the property. 

However, as the contract says, if any over six months old  buy the property you will not be liable to pay the old agent commission.

DullGreyGuy

eddddy said:

DullGreyGuy said:

How is an "introduction" defined?
...
...

The TPO basically admits there is a current problem which hasn't been fixed and secondly goes to suggest a viewing is best evidence it doesnt say it's the only evidence hence the problem persists. 

As explained above, the seller sidesteps the problem by getting a list of people introduced by the old agent, and passing it to the new agent.

If the old agent is dishonest, and includes people on the list they shouldn't - that's unfair on the new agent. But the seller doesn't really suffer.



Edit to add...

But perhaps a scenario where the seller might suffer is if the old agent dishonestly claims they introduced somebody, and the seller goes on to sell to that person privately. But that's probably a very unusual edge case.

I disagree, the seller does suffer given they have de-instructed the old agent. The new agent has a list of people they cannot market to who may be actively looking for a property but now will not be approached. You generally achieve the highest selling price by having the more people interested in buying but now there are a host of active buyers who no one is communicating with so reduces the chances of receiving multiple offers etc

It would be different if it was now under joint instruction. 

silvercar

Interesting that the new agent is allowed to receive a list of clients of the old agent, I would have thought that would breach GDPR. It also gives the new agent a list of potential buyers of similar properties that they may not have. Irrelevant to the OP, but I thought it interesting.

Herzlos

It's usually 6 years I think, so 2019 will likely be fine. 


OP, I'd just annotate the list with "introduced in 2019" and "introduced in 2025" and then not worry about it. If someone from 2019 expresses interest you can figure it out, but after 6 years it's a fairly low risk. 

RHemmings

wannahouse said:

We are changing sales agents- the old ones were not good and only got 9 viewings in 2 months and two very low offers.
Upon leaving them the provided a sales introduction list to hand to the new agent.
It was TWO PAGES LONG!
However, they only did 9 viewings, two they booked cancelled.
But there is two pages of names provided!
I looked over that list and a few things stood out... I recognised some of the names on them so went back through old emails from 2019, when they last had our place on the market (and it failed to complete due to the flat cladding crisis).
Two of the names on there were of two 2019 buyers who offered and had that offers accepted, and then the 11 people from 2025 were tacked on the end of the list in order of the date they viewed, and not randomly peppered through the list, so I believe they have either mistakenly taken old data from our file from last time they marketed it in 2019 and added all of those people to the list, or they did it deliberately to pad out the list incase any of them come sniffing around looking to buy again this time.
I have emailed them and asked them to clarify whether a mistake has been made and if so to please reissue an accurate list from 2025, as only 9 people have actually viewed the place.

Can I ask them for evidence of the current introductions on this list, as it doesnt seem right?

So dodgy!
How many people get caught out paying a commission to agents not realising the list isnt accurate... I wonder how often agents do this?

Are they members of The Property Ombudsman Service? If so, then they have a definition as to what an effective introduction is. 

If I was in your situation, and the agent is signed up to TPOS, I would go through the agent's official complaints procedure, saying that they have provided you with an invalid sales introduction list. Quote TPOS's definitions. https://www.tpos.co.uk/news-media-and-press-releases/press-releases/item/tpo-issues-guidance-to-agents-on-dual-fees-2   Insist that you are given a correct and valid sales introduction list. 

If they are members of the Property Redress Scheme (PRS) then things are less clear. It should say on the EA's website which scheme they belong to. 

wannahouse

RHemmings said:

wannahouse said:

We are changing sales agents- the old ones were not good and only got 9 viewings in 2 months and two very low offers.
Upon leaving them the provided a sales introduction list to hand to the new agent.
It was TWO PAGES LONG!
However, they only did 9 viewings, two they booked cancelled.
But there is two pages of names provided!
I looked over that list and a few things stood out... I recognised some of the names on them so went back through old emails from 2019, when they last had our place on the market (and it failed to complete due to the flat cladding crisis).
Two of the names on there were of two 2019 buyers who offered and had that offers accepted, and then the 11 people from 2025 were tacked on the end of the list in order of the date they viewed, and not randomly peppered through the list, so I believe they have either mistakenly taken old data from our file from last time they marketed it in 2019 and added all of those people to the list, or they did it deliberately to pad out the list incase any of them come sniffing around looking to buy again this time.
I have emailed them and asked them to clarify whether a mistake has been made and if so to please reissue an accurate list from 2025, as only 9 people have actually viewed the place.

Can I ask them for evidence of the current introductions on this list, as it doesnt seem right?

So dodgy!
How many people get caught out paying a commission to agents not realising the list isnt accurate... I wonder how often agents do this?

Are they members of The Property Ombudsman Service? If so, then they have a definition as to what an effective introduction is. 

If I was in your situation, and the agent is signed up to TPOS, I would go through the agent's official complaints procedure, saying that they have provided you with an invalid sales introduction list. Quote TPOS's definitions. https://www.tpos.co.uk/news-media-and-press-releases/press-releases/item/tpo-issues-guidance-to-agents-on-dual-fees-2   Insist that you are given a correct and valid sales introduction list. 

If they are members of the Property Redress Scheme (PRS) then things are less clear. It should say on the EA's website which scheme they belong to. 

Thanks
They are a big London agent so I am sure they are signed up to the Ombudsman.
I have written to them and asked them to remove the old  contacts, that were relevant to the 2019 contract- they have nothing to do with this contract now legally so cannot be included.
So far they haven't responded to the email.


For another example of unprofessional behaviour, when they first started marketing the apartment and were arranging the first viewings, I got a whatsapp message out of the blue from an old tenant who lived there in 2019 when they were last marketing, and she told me they had contacted her to arrange a viewing and had sent her some information they had no business sharing with her, which she attached to show me.
I apologised for the mistaken intrusion and told her i would contact the agents to make sure they didnt bother her again, but i was shocked and annoyed that even though on the instruction form for the 2025 contract, i had provided all the current relevant contact details, they had ignored that and contacted the old tenants from details they had years ago...highly disorganised!
Plus now the old tenant knew all our personal information about the sale as they had sent her that info!

wannahouse

@km1500 "Maybe it is just me but I'm not sure what the problem is
The list is correct - that is a complete  list of people they have "introduced" to the property. "



The list is NOT CORRECT.
It can ONLY include legally introductions they have made since 28th March 2025 in this current contract.
What happened in 2019 was a separate sales contract and has nothing to do with now and is null and void!

wannahouse

@silvercar "Interesting that the new agent is allowed to receive a list of clients of the old agent, I would have thought that would breach GDPR. It also gives the new agent a list of potential buyers of similar properties that they may not have. Irrelevant to the OP, but I thought it interesting"

That is standard practice across the industry when de-instructing one agent and going to another.
It is a name with no contact details so it doesnt breach any GDPR rules, but identifies if a commission is due if the property eventually sells with the new agent to someone of the same name who was introduced during the period of the first contract.

wannahouse

@eddddy "
If the old agent is dishonest, and includes people on the list they shouldn't - that's unfair on the new agent. But the seller doesn't really suffer."

Yes, the vendor DOES SUFFER from the dishonesty, as not only would we have to pay commission for the same to the current agent, we would also have to pay the first agents commission also, being stung twice!

eddddy

wannahouse said:

I have written to them and asked them to remove the old  contacts, that were relevant to the 2019 contract- they have nothing to do with this contract now legally so cannot be included.
So far they haven't responded to the email.

It might be better to say something along the lines of...

"Mr X and Mr Y were not introduced during your recent contract period. Therefore they shouldn't appear on the list. If you disagree, and believe they should be on the list, please contact me.

If I don't hear from you, I 'll take it that you agree."