My brother has received money from my confused mother without going via the lpa

Zanderman

JacCritter said:

Zanderman said:

I'm a bit confused.  You're suggesting you think there's any LPA element to this? It seems your brother may have received some money from your mother. By some means. Possibly by mother directly.

But why suggest (in your thread title) that money has been given 'without going via the LPA' as if that is wrong in LPA terms? It shouldn't be being given with the LPA.

An LPA doesn't give attorneys the right to withdraw money for themselves. It gives a duty to manage the finances responsibly for the account holder, not gift it to themselves. 

If the LPA has been used by your brother to gift money to himself, then it's a breach of his LPA duties. So you need to find out if the LPA has been used like this and, if so, report it.  

My mother is framing the lpa and the fact that we are joint executors of her will as an example of how equally she treats us. 
As I say, I don't know if he has accessed the lpa or anything else with or without her permission because she bites my head off every time I ask. So I've stopped asking.

My point was that using the LPA doesn't mean he can draw funds for himself. And if he has he's in breach of his legal duties. Which should be reported, as it is theft.

The LPA is for you, as her attorneys, to manage her finances for her in her lifetime, not for yourselves. If she frames it (the LPA) as being some method of letting you have access to her money before her death then she's fundamentally misunderstood what an LPA is. 

Your mother treating you equally (or at least as joint executors) in her will is irrelevant to the LPA.

Edited to add:  If the LPA was made in 2016 or later my understanding is that you (as an attorney in it) can check whether any other attorney is using it by an online check. Not ever had to try this myself but have a look at   https://www.gov.uk/use-lasting-power-attorney/start-lasting-power-of-attorney and at https://www.gov.uk/use-lasting-power-attorney/records-duties

JacCritter

Unfortunately she's fundamentally misunderstanding a lot some of the time.

elsien

Zanderman said:

JacCritter said:

Zanderman said:

I'm a bit confused.  You're suggesting you think there's any LPA element to this? It seems your brother may have received some money from your mother. By some means. Possibly by mother directly.

But why suggest (in your thread title) that money has been given 'without going via the LPA' as if that is wrong in LPA terms? It shouldn't be being given with the LPA.

An LPA doesn't give attorneys the right to withdraw money for themselves. It gives a duty to manage the finances responsibly for the account holder, not gift it to themselves. 

If the LPA has been used by your brother to gift money to himself, then it's a breach of his LPA duties. So you need to find out if the LPA has been used like this and, if so, report it.  

My mother is framing the lpa and the fact that we are joint executors of her will as an example of how equally she treats us. 
As I say, I don't know if he has accessed the lpa or anything else with or without her permission because she bites my head off every time I ask. So I've stopped asking.

My point was that using the LPA doesn't mean he can draw funds for himself. And if he has he's in breach of his legal duties. Which should be reported, as it is theft.

The LPA is for you, as her attorneys, to manage her finances for her in her lifetime, not for yourselves. If she frames it (the LPA) as being some method of letting you have access to her money before her death then she's fundamentally misunderstood what an LPA is. 

Your mother treating you equally (or at least as joint executors) in her will is irrelevant to the LPA.

Edited to add:  If the LPA was made in 2016 or later my understanding is that you (as an attorney in it) can check whether any other attorney is using it by an online check. Not ever had to try this myself but have a look at   https://www.gov.uk/use-lasting-power-attorney/start-lasting-power-of-attorney and at https://www.gov.uk/use-lasting-power-attorney/records-duties

I'm not sure that is the case. There is an online check but I think it just shows whether an LPA has been initially registered with the OPG, not whether it has been activated or not.  Not 100% sure on that though.  I might test that out sometime as I have LPA for my mother, in that we have registered it, but it's never been activated or used as it's not yet been needed. 

Zanderman

elsien said:

Zanderman said:

JacCritter said:

Zanderman said:

I'm a bit confused.  You're suggesting you think there's any LPA element to this? It seems your brother may have received some money from your mother. By some means. Possibly by mother directly.

But why suggest (in your thread title) that money has been given 'without going via the LPA' as if that is wrong in LPA terms? It shouldn't be being given with the LPA.

An LPA doesn't give attorneys the right to withdraw money for themselves. It gives a duty to manage the finances responsibly for the account holder, not gift it to themselves. 

If the LPA has been used by your brother to gift money to himself, then it's a breach of his LPA duties. So you need to find out if the LPA has been used like this and, if so, report it.  

My mother is framing the lpa and the fact that we are joint executors of her will as an example of how equally she treats us. 
As I say, I don't know if he has accessed the lpa or anything else with or without her permission because she bites my head off every time I ask. So I've stopped asking.

My point was that using the LPA doesn't mean he can draw funds for himself. And if he has he's in breach of his legal duties. Which should be reported, as it is theft.

The LPA is for you, as her attorneys, to manage her finances for her in her lifetime, not for yourselves. If she frames it (the LPA) as being some method of letting you have access to her money before her death then she's fundamentally misunderstood what an LPA is. 

Your mother treating you equally (or at least as joint executors) in her will is irrelevant to the LPA.

Edited to add:  If the LPA was made in 2016 or later my understanding is that you (as an attorney in it) can check whether any other attorney is using it by an online check. Not ever had to try this myself but have a look at   https://www.gov.uk/use-lasting-power-attorney/start-lasting-power-of-attorney and at https://www.gov.uk/use-lasting-power-attorney/records-duties

I'm not sure that is the case. There is an online check but I think it just shows whether an LPA has been initially registered with the OPG, not whether it has been activated or not.  Not 100% sure on that though.  I might test that out sometime as I have LPA for my mother, in that we have registered it, but it's never been activated or used as it's not yet been needed. 

Well I don't know as I've never tried it. But the wording on the first link I gave says:

If you’re an attorney or the donor on an LPA, you can use this service to:

• view a one page summary of an LPA
• let companies or organisations view a one page summary of an LPA
• keep track of who has been given access to an LPA
• see how people named on an LPA are using the service
• ask for an activation key if you have not been given one
• replace your activation key if yours is lost or expired

You can only use this service for an LPA registered in England and Wales, on or after 1 January 2016.

(my bold highlighting)

soulsaver

By accessing the lpa online, you can check if the token system has been used to register an LPA with named institutions etc..

If the hard copy LPA has been used, there is no online record of that fact.