Outgoing Octopus is changing to a variable rate tariff

pensionpawn

NedS said:

At the point export becomes worthless, storage will become a lot more viable. At the moment, the grid is acting like a huge battery at a SEG rate that is close to import rates.

I'm not sure I agree with that. I have had my panels for 9.5 years and have enjoyed metered export over the last two years. Never at any point during that period have I been able to fiscally justify the cost of a battery, even though as a tech geek I'd love one. The best scenarios take at least 8 years to return on investment, with the worst exceeding their 10 year warranty. Also, since moving to metered export, I have read numerous posts of people using the time shifting margin to justify adding to their battery farm / improve their ROI timeframe, and hopefully it has worked for some? However I fear that for many the recent reductions in the export rate (due to excess solar...?) will have scuttled those calculations way before they break even..? So, unless there is a drastic reduction in domestic battery cost, I will continue to wait for bi-directional charging to become a fiscally beneficial option, and then invest in my first EV. With a 50kWhr battery (min) I will then be able to store more of my ~4 Mwhr pa export and power my house for longer during grid outages. Until then, I'm sitting on the fence!

vic_sf49

I'm still on the FIT scheme too, so don't have, and haven't investigated batteries, in case it affects the FIT contract. Shall maybe read up on the facts ref that at some point. So Outgoing is the only logical tariff.

(I bought a property with panels already installed, so don't know the ins and outs of it all, and have a bit of cba (can't be ar.ed) going on.)

I'd signed up to SEG (metered export) in July, but didn't remember anyone mentioning the change to the tariff / rates since then. (Not to say they haven't, I just don't remember it.)

MWT

pensionpawn said:

Until then, I'm sitting on the fence!

I got off the fence 7 years ago and purchased an EV, then solar PV and a Powerwall, the savings have kept rolling in ever since then.

Waiting for bi-directional charging to be viable is a mistake in my opinion.

To be viable you will need it to be fully DC in both directions in/out of the EV or you end up converting solar PV to AC to charge the car which stores in DC and then reverses the DC/AC conversion back to the house.

Going to be a while yet before this is generally available. Meanwhile I'm paying the low-rate for 99.9% of our power consumption and have been for over 5 years already.

You can talk yourself into or out of this sort of investment, we are in and happy to be so

QrizB

This is really a discussion for the on-grid battery storage thread over on Green & Ethical (link below ) but today you could get the parts for a 15kWh AC-coupled battery storage system for about £2k.

That's enough that most people could charge on the cheap period of E7 and use essentially zero daytime electricity.

If we assume that you will always be able to find an E7 tariff that's 10p/kWh cheaper than the best single-rate equivalent, the 2700kWh/yr TDCV household would save £270 a year from this and the battery would pay for itself in 7-8 years. And that's without any contribution from solar PV.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5568536/on-grid-domestic-battery-storage/p1

Martyn1981

Hi QrizB, yes, we've been able to avoid daily import* rates right through the winter, with 20kWh of storage. Switching DHW and gas oven to leccy this year, but the DHW won't have any impact, as that'll be heated on cheap rate. Gas oven should be minimal additional daytime demand. [Current gas consumption for the last year has been ~100kWh pm.]

At current Octopus rates, including export, we will probably earn £100 to £200 per year more than our bills (home leccy, space heating, DHW, cooking and transport). [Note, that's after we complete shift from gas, and avoid ~£100 pa SC's.]

* A couple of days in January, when particularly cold, and no PV contribution, batts were empty by late evening. And also we tend to import a bit during teatime cooking, some from multiple devices exceeding the battery inverter limit, and also the indusction/microwave 'pulsing', which the batts have trouble following.

debitcardmayhem

I wonder if Octopus will stop Agile using Outgoing and force them to use Agile Export prices, it would seem fairer IMHO, but not preferable to those agile folks. Flux user cant get outgoing 
edit
 but IOF gets same as import prices which is OK, vanilla flux is more or less dead again Imho

pensionpawn

MWT said:

pensionpawn said:

Until then, I'm sitting on the fence!

I got off the fence 7 years ago and purchased an EV, then solar PV and a Powerwall, the savings have kept rolling in ever since then.

Waiting for bi-directional charging to be viable is a mistake in my opinion.

To be viable you will need it to be fully DC in both directions in/out of the EV or you end up converting solar PV to AC to charge the car which stores in DC and then reverses the DC/AC conversion back to the house.

Going to be a while yet before this is generally available. Meanwhile I'm paying the low-rate for 99.9% of our power consumption and have been for over 5 years already.

You can talk yourself into or out of this sort of investment, we are in and happy to be so

Every situation is different. My wife retired almost three years ago and I've reduced my hours, so across two cars our annual mileage is approx 5000-6000, way too low to make churning to an EV cost effective. It would take a couple of years just to recover the cost of the charger! Our cost to import electricity for a year is ~£1k (we have an induction hob, electric oven, UFH and A/C) however 57% of that cost is Nov-Feb inc, when I see 8% of my annual solar generation. So cost reduction during the darkest third of the year is at the mercy of the power companies who control, and are steadily eroding, the margin between night time import and day import / export. For example, I've been on Octopus Flux for 2 years and my total (elec / gas inc S/C) energy bills were ~£50 for 23/24, ~£360 for 24/25, so with little change to consumption, the trajectory is clear. I'm pleased that it's worked for you and obviously others, however I'll bide my time. You could be correct that bi-directional charges have ludicrous prices, however that doesn't alter the here and now for me. What would though is increasing power cuts due to rationing, or other means. We've had only 2 in the near 28 years in my current house, so no need so far, however we live in a very changeable world...

MWT

pensionpawn said:

....however we live in a very changeable world...

That was another reason we made the move, but as you say, everyone is different and it has to be something you really want to do.

wrf12345

Both solar panels and batteries pricing are falling at a very rapid rate, not yet reflected in install prices but if off-grid there are lots of DIY options which do not end up costing ten grand or more.

QrizB

Both solar panels and batteries pricing are falling at a very rapid rate, not yet reflected in install prices but if off-grid there are lots of DIY options which do not end up costing ten grand or more.

I look forward to hearing all about your new off-grid life. It'll finally save you from those standing charges that seem to plague your existence!