SABA Penalty Notice - mostly for information

kryten3000

I recently received a Penalty Notice to Owner from SABA for "failing to obtain a valid ticket or cashless parking session" at my local railway station.  I was not the driver, Mrs Kryten3000 was and usually gets a printed receipt from the payment machine.  On this particular occasion the printer was inoperative. Coincidence?

I don't need any advice or assistance, I'm more than capable of dealing with this but wanted to highlight exactly what this fake PN is stating and how SABA are lying to motorists.

"In the event this remains unpaid, our Client has the option to pursue you through the Magistrates Court by way of a private criminal prosecution which can result in a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale, set out in section 37 of the Criminal Justice Act 1982, currently £1000; we urge you to take up this offer of disposal. Alternatively, legal action may be taken via the Civil Procedure in the County Court which would also include additional fixed legal costs."
(my emphasis).

On page 2 under appeals:

"As the owner/keeper is liable for this debt, the driver does not have the opportunity to further this appeal".

They also fudge what the "independent appeals service" will be and don't mention POPLA.

So, I appealed this online after a suitable delay enclosing a screen shot of the payment from Mrs Kryten3000's bank account:

My Appeal "This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT ask for driver details in order to get around the fact your notice does not comply with POFA.

Full payment was made for parking on the material date and consequently there has been no breach of Byelaw 14(3) which states: "No person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall park it on any part of the railway where charges are made for parking by an Operator or an authorised person without paying the appropriate charge at the appropriate time in accordance with instructions given by an Operator or an authorised person at that place.

As there is no keeper liability then liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and thus is an auto win at POPLA. Please therefore cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code where you will auto withdraw."

Their response:

"As this is a Penalty Notice issued under Railway Bylaws, the owner of the vehicle is ultimately liable. 

 

Please be advised you are unable to transfer the liability to the driver even if the driver details were provided. 

 

However, the driver is able to make an appeal or make payment. 

 

Please note we are unable to locate payment under this vehicle registration.

So we can look to locate your payment please confirm if you made payment on site at a machine or by the application?

• Either a screenshot from the apps history showing all the information of the payment made or the email receipt
• If payment made by the application, please confirm:
• The email address attached to the application.
• The telephone number attached to the payment.
• Any other vehicles on the application.

If you made payment on site at the machine, please confirm:

• The time you made payment (as you drove in/out)
• The last 4 digits from the card details used to make payment.
• Any other vehicle that you use that you may have entered in error."
  

Their PN says the driver cannot appeal, but their reply says they can?!


Of course I have no intention of responding to this, they already have everything they need to show payment was made. Also I didn't make any payment, the driver did.  I'll wait for them to issue a POPLA code and respond to that on day 28.

Coupon-mad

Interesting...what anti anti-consumer stitch up.

Can you show a screenshot of that wording on the NTK and their reply here if you can redact it enough to be happy for me to show the MHCLG?

What's needed is a Railway (& Airport) byelaws Appendix in the statutory Code, a bit like the BPA Code version only more consumer friendly.

At the moment the Joint Code has nothing & nor did the 2022 statutory CoP. Can't be left open to the industry to do anything they like.

fisherjim

"As this is a Penalty Notice issued under Railway Bylaws, the owner of the vehicle is ultimately liable."

Dear SABA, how do you propose to determine who the "owner", is do tell?

Car1980

our Client has the option to pursue you through the Magistrates Court by way of a private criminal prosecution which can result in a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale, set out in section 37 of the Criminal Justice Act 1982, currently £1000;

Anybody has the option to pursue anyone by means of a private criminal prosecution.

The average cost to do so is £8500. 

So, not a brilliant idea if you're trying to get £1000 out of the defendant 😂

kryten3000

Here's the redacted PN as requested by @Coupon-mad

Castle

Car1980 said:

our Client has the option to pursue you through the Magistrates Court by way of a private criminal prosecution which can result in a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale, set out in section 37 of the Criminal Justice Act 1982, currently £1000;

Anybody has the option to pursue anyone by means of a private criminal prosecution.

The average cost to do so is £8500. 

So, not a brilliant idea if you're trying to get £1000 out of the defendant 😂

Especially as the £1,000 goes to the Government.

kryten3000

I did not respond to their email reply to my appeal received 23rd May, expecting them to reject and send a POPLA code.  Instead this morning I received a debt recovery letter from ZZPS demanding £170.

I have replied to SABA and sent in a formal complaint as they are now in breach of Sections 8.4.1 and 8.4.6 of the BPA code of practice and probably 8.4.7 as well, because if they claim they issued a POPLA code then they should have waited before "transferring" to ZZPS.

In my complaint I have demanded that they instruct ZZPS to remove my data and to cancel the charge or issue access to the ADR.

Let's see what they say...

kryten3000

Well I didn't have to wait long for a response:

"Thank you for getting in touch.

I am sorry to hear that your Penalty Notice was escalated to the debt recovery stage. Unfortunately, the appeal was managed by the PayMyParkingCharge Team on behalf of Saba. This means that we would be unable to assist regarding your appeal outcome.

I would advise getting in touch with the PayMyParkingCharge Team by using the below details:

• Email: customerservices@paymyparkingcharge.com

• Telephone: 01932 918 098

If you are unhappy with the service which either PayMyParkingCharge or ZZPS have provided, then we would also advise raising a formal complaint to their Quality Assurance Team. You can do this by emailing qualityassurance@zzps.co.uk.

I apologise that we have been unable to assist further at this time.

Kind Regards

(Redacted)"

So Saba can't help because they didn't manage the charge directly which raises more questions than it answers.

I've responded telling them I won't be contacting ZZPS and that since Saba issued the charge notice they must deal with this and issue me a cancellation or POPLA code forthwith.

I sense a BPA complaint in 3..2..1...

Castle

Well, that explains how it was "escalated" to ZZPS.

kryten3000

Here's the letter received.   Notice that the address is the same as the original notice - Saba have outsourced the "management" to ZZPS of course.  

Either way they're in breach of the Single Code 8.4

kryten3000

Saba have replied to me again referring me to PayMyParkingCharge (ZZPS), copying in the PayMyParkingCharge customer service email.

"Whilst the Penalty Notice does includes Saba's branding, the case has been managed by PayMyParkingCharge so they would be in the best position to answer any queries relating to your case.

If you wish to raise a formal complaint to Saba, then you can do so by clicking here. We would then be able to provide you with a reference number should you wish to escalate the complaint further to the British Parking Association.

I apologise that we have been unable to answer your queries."

The link is to the same page I already used to complain.  I have given them until Friday to respond with a POPLA code or a cancellation.  Not holding my breath.

If I don't receive a reply I will escalate to the BPA.