Leasehold issue with pets

pjs493

I recently bought a property that is leasehold. The leasehold company is owned and managed by the residents. 

 

The lease states that residents need permission to keep pets. When I was at the conveyancing stage I asked about this because I have three dogs. Other residents have dogs and have been there for over a decade. I was told the clause was there to prevent excessively large or aggressive dogs in some of the smaller flats. I have one of the larger houses and my own garden. My dogs are well trained and I clear up after them, etc. 

Today I was approached by a neighbour who stated that my ‘neighbours’ were not very happy about my dogs. It was a complete surprise and he kept talking about having to come to an ‘amicable solution’ but failed to articulate what exactly the issue is. I repeatedly asked what the concern was and mentioned that no one had raised any issues with me. My dogs will have a bark if someone unexpectedly knocks on the door, but they immediately stop when told. I really can’t think of anything else that anyone could be annoyed about (even that feels like clutching at straws) and my house isn’t in a position where my dogs barking inside the house could be heard by neighbours anyway. 

The implication was that the executive members of the leasehold company (of which I own a share), were likely to tell me to get rid of my dogs. I asked why there was disparity when other neighbours have dogs, but no explanation was forthcoming. I made it clear that I had asked about this before I went through with the purchase and that I wouldn’t be getting rid of my dogs. So if I was told to I’d put my house back on the market. I also pointed out the disparity and that I felt like I was suddenly feeling unwelcome in my new home. 

Most of my neighbours are retired and I have two young children so I can’t help but wonder if the real issue is that a young family have moved in and some neighbours are using the dogs as some sort of excuse to make waves. Until today I felt really happy with my new home and welcomed by by neighbours, but this has really upset me and my head is swimming because I feel like I’m about to be told I have to get rid of my dogs (that have supported me through the death of my husband and cancer treatment). 

What sort of recourse do I have here, apart from the obvious disparity of other neighbours (including one exec member) having dogs, but mine suddenly being a problem? 

Mark_d

You need to formally request permission to have dogs are receive the permission in writing.  This is the condition in the lease.  Other residents may have gained permission but you know that you have not.

The leasehold company need to act fairly and reasonably.  They cannot just do what they like.  And you are also bound by the conditions of the lease as they are written.  It's not up to you to decide the "true meaning of the lease"

pjs493

Mark_d said:

You need to formally request permission to have dogs are receive the permission in writing.  This is the condition in the lease.  Other residents may have gained permission but you know that you have not.

The leasehold company need to act fairly and reasonably.  They cannot just do what they like.  And you are also bound by the conditions of the lease as they are written.  It's not up to you to decide the "true meaning of the lease"

I did request permission and it was granted. That was when I was told, by a member of the executive, that the clause was only there in case there were issues with aggressive or very large dogs in some of the smaller units. 

In other words it gives the leasehold company (of which I own a share of) authority to refuse permission to someone who wants to adopt an XL Bully or require a resident to get rid of a dog that bites someone. But the clause wasn’t intended to prevent someone with well trained labradors from having dogs in their house. 

youth_leader

So sorry, I am a woman on her own and have had various odd things said to me by my male neighbour including 'don't plant anything to obscure my view' - I don't think he would have said this to my late husband.  We have a castle at the end of the road and there are many gardens in between it and us with various levels of hedge.


As you have permission and are complying with the lease clause I would not give it another thought. 

Marky4040

As soon as you said "two young children" and "three dogs" i can see what the issue is. 

Unfortunately you may think you're living quietly and respectfully but i gaurantee the neighbours don't see it that way. Dogs barking and young kids running around is not condusive to your neighbours peaceful existence.

Probably wasn't a good idea to move there if it's essentially "gods waiting room".

In saying that, if you've saught permission and there in nothing in the lease around the "type and breed" of dogs people are allowed to keep, there isn't anything anyone can do about it, since you've not breached the lease. Your neighbour knows this, hence his vague comments.

I would simply say, you appreciate his comments and will be  mindful of disturbances, but you're not living in a monestery and he also has the option to move!

pjs493

youth_leader said:

So sorry, I am a woman on her own and have had various odd things said to me by my male neighbour including 'don't plant anything to obscure my view' - I don't think he would have said this to my late husband.  We have a castle at the end of the road and there are many gardens in between it and us with various levels of hedge.


As you have permission and are complying with the lease clause I would not give it another thought. 

Thank you for your compassion. I get the impression that some residents who have lived here for a long time feel they have some sort of right to dictate how other people live. 

Many owners use their properties as holiday homes, so I can see how some of the long term permanent residents prefer that many of the properties are empty most of the time as they get to enjoy more of the communal areas without a full contingent of residents. 

My family has replaced an elderly second home owner who hadn’t visited the property in a number of years due to ill health, so I can see why they might be frustrated by a change to a young family. But my view is that if they feel so strongly about who should live where and how, they are perhaps not suited to living in a small leasehold community that anyone can move into. If they want to live in a retirement community without families around then, regardless of how long they’ve lived here, this isn’t the place for them. 

When I first arrived, everyone I met expressed how happy they were for a young family to move in because most of the residents are advanced in years and things they were able to do 20 years ago are no longer possible. So it’s time for younger people to come in and take the mantle so to speak. I was originally made to feel very welcome, and until today I had no idea that I was apparently upsetting the neighbours. 

sheramber

Today I was approached by a neighbour who stated that my ‘neighbours’ were not very happy about my dogs. 

Perhaps it is only that one neighbour, since no one else has said anything. 

Rather than worrying about it why not contact the member of the executive committee who spoke to you previously and ask if there is a problem?

kimwp

There's always a neighbour who likes to comment on things they don't like as though they have the right to dictate everything to be as they want it. If you aren't making unreasonable noise, then just ignore them and focus on the nice things that the other neighbours have said.

pjs493

Marky4040 said:

As soon as you said "two young children" and "three dogs" i can see what the issue is. 

Unfortunately you may think you're living quietly and respectfully but i gaurantee the neighbours don't see it that way. Dogs barking and young kids running around is not condusive to your neighbours peaceful existence.

Probably wasn't a good idea to move there if it's essentially "gods waiting room".

In saying that, if you've saught permission and there in nothing in the lease around the "type and breed" of dogs people are allowed to keep, there isn't anything anyone can do about it, since you've not breached the lease. Your neighbour knows this, hence his vague comments.

I would simply say, you appreciate his comments and will be  mindful of disturbances, but you're not living in a monestery and he also has the option to move!

I haven’t moved into a retirement community and there is nothing anyone can legally do to prevent families moving to any open market property. Of course there are rules about noise levels etc that everyone must adhere to in order to be considered to be a good neighbour. But objecting to my children and dogs because it ruins someone’s ’peaceful existence’ isn’t my problem, it’s theirs. 

We don’t make noise at antisocial hours. I don’t play loud music or even have the tv above a level that could be heard outside the room it’s playing in. The dogs bark if a stranger comes to the door, but we live on a private street where the only strangers are delivery drivers and tradesmen I have coming to do various jobs in the house. As the dogs become used to our postman, Amazon driver, etc, they no longer react because they now understand those people don’t pose a threat. 

The ironic thing is one of the other long term neighbours also has three dogs, another has two (one of which is a very happy terrier) and no issues have been raised about them. Reading between the lines, I think the issue is elderly people having an objection to the usual noise children make. But they don’t live next door and there is masses of land here for the children to play in. It’s not as if we share a wall or a fence and I’ve got kids kicking balls against their house or things like that. My dogs don’t make a noise when I walk them and I pick up after them. My children play like any other children do in the wide open spaces they have access to and enjoy riding their bikes up and down the road (away from the complaining neigbour’s house).

I guess I’m more upset and concerned that I’ve inadvertently upset or angered someone rather than the legalities of the situation. I want to get on with my neighbours and build a community with them. I really thought that was happening: I volunteered to help in the community garden, to take on some of the administrative tasks that my career lends itself to, and to sit with an elderly neighbour who is currently bed bound due to an injury to break up their day while my children are in school, all whilst going through cancer treatment myself and all the trauma of losing my husband. But it seems despite my efforts to be a good neighbour I’ve upset people to the point where I’m not wanted. 

The conversation I had today makes me feel like we aren’t being accepted, and despite the claims that the older generations living here welcome younger families coming in to eventually take some of the administrative burden, it feels like they like the idea but not the reality. For clarification, it’s not exactly ‘God’s waiting room’ but obviously the retired contingent tend to spend more time here than those who work full time and/or have grown up children. I’m the only full time resident with children (who are at school all day). There are other families who are here with children and babies in school holidays. 

pjs493

kimwp said:

There's always a neighbour who likes to comment on things they don't like as though they have the right to dictate everything to be as they want it. If you aren't making unreasonable noise, then just ignore them and focus on the nice things that the other neighbours have said.

Thank you for your kind words. I’m hoping it’s something that will blow over once we settle in and they have time to reflect on my response (they reduced me to tears when I expressed how upset I was to hear that I wasn’t welcome and might have to sell my house after finally finding what I thought was my forever home). One issue raised was where I parked one of my cars (within the boundaries of my property) because it caused ‘issues’ for other residents. They were incredibly vague about what those issues were although there was some allusion to viability from their window which they quickly backtracked on after they said it. So I moved the car to a different part of my driveway without question as it made no difference to me.

But the idea that I could be forced to sell my home because a fellow resident doesn’t like dogs (but has no objections to the other dogs who have lived here for a long time most of which are the same breed as mine) and might try to force me to get rid of them by invoking some part of the lease has really upset me. 

I even pointed out to them that the lease only really gives the executive committee (or all residents via a vote) the power to force someone to get rid of a dog if it is making a serious problem or nuisance, ie a dog has bitten someone or barks day and night in a property with party wall neighbours to the point where the council have to get involved due to noise disturbance. One of my dogs barking at the postman for a couple of weeks before they get used to him, doesn’t reach the threshold where a dog could legally be considered a problem. Another neighbour’s dogs roam unsupervised on the private road and lie in the middle of it in the sun. They don’t cause any problems and don’t prevent people from driving slowly down the road, so I don’t see how that isn’t an issue when my dog barking at a stranger is. 

sheramber

Perhaps the complaining neighbour has complained to other residents previously. 

They may not speak for the all the other  neighbours.