Can’t locate wife’s late brothers daughter.

RAS

I'd suggest setting up a short-term, free account in Ancestry. Since you have this person's essential details, dob, location of birth, parents, sibling etc, set up a tree, going back at least that far, preferably with grandparents. Then ask it to search Scotland. Would take an hour if you have the basic information.

If the missing person has a middle name or unusual surname try checking the marriages in scotlandspeople, though it's of limited use if the surname is MacKenzie or Smith.

I'd also check deaths on scotlandspeople as they are indexed by mother's maiden name.

Leave it two or three days, search Scotland again and it may offer you an electoral roll record for 2010-18 or earlier. That works almost as well in Scotland as in England and if they haven't married is even better.  Use 192.com to check for other occupants.

That might help identify one or two likely marriages in Scotland if relevant. You'd need to buy the marriage certificates but it's an executor's cost.

Not fool-proof, but I reckon about 50% of descendants I'm trying to trace, including cross-border both ways. Had people born in Devon pop up in Inverness and people from Edinburgh pop up in Devon and Somerset.

madbadrob

Removed after reading the OP again.

Now for the tracing part.  The salvation army are a good starting point but I am not sure if they still do searches.  Alternatively you could use a trace service.  1st loquate for example.  (I only mention them as I use some of their other services in my business)

Assuming they havent left the country then there really is no hiding from someone with the expertise and of course the money to buy the databases we use to trace.  

As others have said search facebook instagram twitter (now X) friends reunited etc.  If you exhaust those there is the electoral roll however that does to some extent need you knowing a general idea of the location they may be at.  

Rob

madbadrob

RAS said:

I'd suggest setting up a short-term, free account in Ancestry. Since you have this person's essential details, dob, location of birth, parents, sibling etc, set up a tree, going back at least that far, preferably with grandparents. Then ask it to search Scotland. Would take an hour if you have the basic information.

If the missing person has a middle name or unusual surname try checking the marriages in scotlandspeople, though it's of limited use if the surname is MacKenzie or Smith.

I'd also check deaths on scotlandspeople as they are indexed by mother's maiden name.

Leave it two or three days, search Scotland again and it may offer you an electoral roll record for 2010-18 or earlier. That works almost as well in Scotland as in England and if they haven't married is even better.  Use 192.com to check for other occupants.

That might help identify one or two likely marriages in Scotland if relevant. You'd need to buy the marriage certificates but it's an executor's cost.

Not fool-proof, but I reckon about 50% of descendants I'm trying to trace, including cross-border both ways. Had people born in Devon pop up in Inverness and people from Edinburgh pop up in Devon and Somerset.

Alas Ancestry familyu searches wont provide anything if they are living or not been declared deceased and they were born less than 100 years ago.  Scotlands people is a better service but again not all deaths are registered with the mothers name on it.  


Rob

madbadrob

FlorayG said:

I presume you know her name, so you could post to Scottish newspapers asking for her to contact you?
I'm curious as to what happens to their share if the person can't be found but neither can you prove they have died?

Floray the law is clear on this.  There share must be held for 12 years at which point the beneficiary is barred from the estate and the money can then be shared amongst the other beneficiaries.  The person holding the estate must be able to show that they did try to find the missing person.  A section 27 notice in a local paper to the last known address is one way of doing this.  The S27 is something we would reccommend any one do on any estate as it also protects the PR/executors from any claims after the 2 month period.  Another option is to pay all the other heirs their share and a pro rata share of the missing beneficiaries money but get a writen signed confirmation from each that should the missing beneficiary come forward they will return their portion of this persons share.  This is risky and I dont need to really explain why I am sure.

A third is to obtain missing beneficiary insursance however this is costly and many wont insure in this situation.
The final is a Benjamin order however these are very costly, the courts are reluctant to issue these orders.  If a PR/Executor is considering any of the above other than holding it for 12 years (remember they are entitled to the interest to this point)id always suggest seeking legal advice

Welcome to the world of a Heir Hunter
Rob

RAS

madbadrob said:

RAS said:

I'd suggest setting up a short-term, free account in Ancestry. Since you have this person's essential details, dob, location of birth, parents, sibling etc, set up a tree, going back at least that far, preferably with grandparents. Then ask it to search Scotland. Would take an hour if you have the basic information.

If the missing person has a middle name or unusual surname try checking the marriages in scotlandspeople, though it's of limited use if the surname is MacKenzie or Smith.

I'd also check deaths on scotlandspeople as they are indexed by mother's maiden name.

Leave it two or three days, search Scotland again and it may offer you an electoral roll record for 2010-18 or earlier. That works almost as well in Scotland as in England and if they haven't married is even better.  Use 192.com to check for other occupants.

That might help identify one or two likely marriages in Scotland if relevant. You'd need to buy the marriage certificates but it's an executor's cost.

Not fool-proof, but I reckon about 50% of descendants I'm trying to trace, including cross-border both ways. Had people born in Devon pop up in Inverness and people from Edinburgh pop up in Devon and Somerset.

Alas Ancestry familyu searches wont provide anything if they are living or not been declared deceased and they were born less than 100 years ago. 



Rob

I'm trying to translate this. 

I research a lot of descendants of MRCAs in both Scotland and England, as well as emigrants. I frequently hide the fact that I have postal addresses from those whose DNA match I've worked out from almost nil information. When I do contact descendants who aren't on a FH website I always explain very carefully the public sources I used to trace them. I may have used social media as well, but avoid mentioning it as it can be like stalking. 

I've even got one family whose name was completely changed in difficult circumstances. I'd desperately like them to do a DNA test given the paucity of candidates but don't know whether they are aware of the background so I'm leaving them alone. The irony is that one of the descendants is an heir hunter. 

Canada is almost impossible and Australia and NZ not far behind, although if people have remained in the same family property it's worth a punt. Was really peed off when I tracked another of this family to NZ and then discovered he'd died the previous year from the recent obit.

user1977

Grumpelstiltskin said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Try searching births deaths and marriages records to see if there is any record of their marriage and or death. 

Problem is that for Scotland it isn't that easy for modern events.

The indexes on https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/ are up to date, I think it's just downloading the full certificates which is restricted for more modern events.

If she's likely to own property then the Land Register of Scotland supports searching by name (trickier if you're not sure of surname though).

RAS

If you attend the scotlandspeople search rooms, a day pass is £15. That gets you unlimited access to indexes and records.

I'm not sure exactly what protection they've put in place since the row about protecting adoptees as I'm generally not interested in very recent births, but you can access records about recent BMD events for which you have to order a certificate otherwise. I've looked at a death within the previous three months.

I live close enough to make a (long) day trip with a slightly delayed start in Edinburgh. With a cheap train ticket, the saving on buying certificates makes it cost effective. OK didn't find the uncle of a cousin's death but 2 hours excluded the chance he's returned to die, after emigrating. It would have cost over £300 to order the same certificates. When you do find a record you want, it costs 25p to print out. At times in the year a cheap hotel room is also cost effective. 

It pays to be organised; I have a list of specific targets for each branch of the family to validate and print and then areas that I want to search.

bobster2

You could pay a professional investigator.

How you find a reputable firm - and whether the cost could be charged to the estate as an expense - no idea.

madbadrob

RAS said:

madbadrob said:

RAS said:

I'd suggest setting up a short-term, free account in Ancestry. Since you have this person's essential details, dob, location of birth, parents, sibling etc, set up a tree, going back at least that far, preferably with grandparents. Then ask it to search Scotland. Would take an hour if you have the basic information.

If the missing person has a middle name or unusual surname try checking the marriages in scotlandspeople, though it's of limited use if the surname is MacKenzie or Smith.

I'd also check deaths on scotlandspeople as they are indexed by mother's maiden name.

Leave it two or three days, search Scotland again and it may offer you an electoral roll record for 2010-18 or earlier. That works almost as well in Scotland as in England and if they haven't married is even better.  Use 192.com to check for other occupants.

That might help identify one or two likely marriages in Scotland if relevant. You'd need to buy the marriage certificates but it's an executor's cost.

Not fool-proof, but I reckon about 50% of descendants I'm trying to trace, including cross-border both ways. Had people born in Devon pop up in Inverness and people from Edinburgh pop up in Devon and Somerset.

Alas Ancestry familyu searches wont provide anything if they are living or not been declared deceased and they were born less than 100 years ago. 



Rob

I'm trying to translate this. 

I research a lot of descendants of MRCAs in both Scotland and England, as well as emigrants. I frequently hide the fact that I have postal addresses from those whose DNA match I've worked out from almost nil information. When I do contact descendants who aren't on a FH website I always explain very carefully the public sources I used to trace them. I may have used social media as well, but avoid mentioning it as it can be like stalking. 

I've even got one family whose name was completely changed in difficult circumstances. I'd desperately like them to do a DNA test given the paucity of candidates but don't know whether they are aware of the background so I'm leaving them alone. The irony is that one of the descendants is an heir hunter. 

Canada is almost impossible and Australia and NZ not far behind, although if people have remained in the same family property it's worth a punt. Was really peed off when I tracked another of this family to NZ and then discovered he'd died the previous year from the recent obit.

Large fingers and rushing to get the post out.  So Ancestry do not give out publicly names of people who are considered living.  Ancestry consider people living if they were born within the last 100 years and the person submitting the tree to their site hasn't listed them as deceased.  Of course the public records such as birth marriage and death all appear in their paid for searches.  Find My past is the same.  In cases like this the trees are what the OP would be using and therefore the search is going to be futile if they are not deceased.

As a heir hunter I am against the DNA testing because it makes no difference in my field and actually does cause some difficulties.  I am therefore not surprised that the HH wont take a DNA test.  I use public documents and databases that are too costly for the publilc to use for one person.  

It always makes me laugh that people think by selecting not to be shown on the edited Electoral roll that they are undiscoverable.  As you allude to the hardest part is convincing people that youre not a scam artist. 

Rob

RAS

madbadrob said:

RAS said:

madbadrob said:

RAS said:

I'd suggest setting up a short-term, free account in Ancestry. Since you have this person's essential details, dob, location of birth, parents, sibling etc, set up a tree, going back at least that far, preferably with grandparents. Then ask it to search Scotland. Would take an hour if you have the basic information.

If the missing person has a middle name or unusual surname try checking the marriages in scotlandspeople, though it's of limited use if the surname is MacKenzie or Smith.

I'd also check deaths on scotlandspeople as they are indexed by mother's maiden name.

Leave it two or three days, search Scotland again and it may offer you an electoral roll record for 2010-18 or earlier. That works almost as well in Scotland as in England and if they haven't married is even better.  Use 192.com to check for other occupants.

That might help identify one or two likely marriages in Scotland if relevant. You'd need to buy the marriage certificates but it's an executor's cost.

Not fool-proof, but I reckon about 50% of descendants I'm trying to trace, including cross-border both ways. Had people born in Devon pop up in Inverness and people from Edinburgh pop up in Devon and Somerset.

Alas Ancestry familyu searches wont provide anything if they are living or not been declared deceased and they were born less than 100 years ago. 



Rob

I'm trying to translate this. 

I research a lot of descendants of MRCAs in both Scotland and England, as well as emigrants. I frequently hide the fact that I have postal addresses from those whose DNA match I've worked out from almost nil information. When I do contact descendants who aren't on a FH website I always explain very carefully the public sources I used to trace them. I may have used social media as well, but avoid mentioning it as it can be like stalking. 

I've even got one family whose name was completely changed in difficult circumstances. I'd desperately like them to do a DNA test given the paucity of candidates but don't know whether they are aware of the background so I'm leaving them alone. The irony is that one of the descendants is an heir hunter. 

Canada is almost impossible and Australia and NZ not far behind, although if people have remained in the same family property it's worth a punt. Was really peed off when I tracked another of this family to NZ and then discovered he'd died the previous year from the recent obit.

So Ancestry do not give out publicly names of people who are considered living.  

They do provide electoral roll information for 2002-2018 from the edited roll. It doesn't take a lot to cross-reference with 192.com.  And BMD information up to 2005-2007 depending the event.

Births and deaths in England and deaths in Scotland are indexed on government websites up to about three month ago, certainly for the previous year.

That's not the same as avoiding giving out personal details of living people on trees. 

It always makes me laugh that people think by selecting not to be shown on the edited Electoral roll that they are undiscoverable.  As you allude to the hardest part is convincing people that youre not a scam artist. 

Rob

It's not Ancestry who make the decision on tree information, individual's records default to "living" but it's horribly easy to hit the button making someone deceased and open up the record. 

I understand that there is a "secure" electoral roll onto which people who really need security can be entered, but it's a challenge to get on there.