Landlord selling/S21

marcarm

I will bullet this to make it easier to follow as its quite long

 

• 1 year tenancy started in 2009, no deposit taken (LL was my ex wife boss), moves to periodic after the 1 year
• Ex-wife moved out in 2017, LL agreed I could stay
• Feb 2025 LL advised he would like to sell, offered me the place. 
• Apr 2025 - Decided against buying the place due to the issues here
• May 2025 - LL states he wants to market with vacant possession so asks me to give a date for leaving

 

So here we are now, LL says he wants me out by 2 Aug. Communication via text message so far. 

 

I have said I want to go, however I am looking at buying somewhere else (offer accepted on a house and mortgage application processing) so I cannot give him a firm date. Said I would keep him informed whenever I know anything. LL now says he will go the legal route with a Section 21. 

 

At the moment the house does not have a valid gas safety cert (last one expired 2023), no elec safety cert (test was done in 2021 with dangerous faults, LL confirmed he would do the work but this has never happened). 

 

I am finding conflicting information regarding whether a S21 will be valid due to the lack of compliance. Some places say it wouldnt, and some say it would due to the length of my tenancy. 

 

I have told him I dont want to be horrible about this, but I am not giving a firm date when I dont have one, I am certainly not making myself homeless just to make his life easier. And now he seems to be relying on the law when he hasnt followed it himself for the last 4 years. 

 

I know a S21 is just the earliest date he can apply to the court for possession and I dont have to leave on that date, but really the ball is in my court and in reality he should be keeping me a bit sweeter to ensure I dont drag this out for as long as possible. 

 

What I'm wanting to know is will the S21 be valid or not due to the length of my tenancy? So much conflicting info out there

FlorayG

Simple answer -no, it won't be. LL has to be compliant in order to issue a S21 and even if he gets it through and as far as court, the court will decide in your favour due to his non-compliance.
He's also not thought this through at all. If he has no deposit, what can he do if you turn into 'the tenant from hell' after he issues a S21? There's no money available to take repairs from and as you are buying and not renting again he can't threaten you with a bad reference. He's walking on eggshells, he needs to keep you sweet if he has any sense

marcarm

But does that apply to a pre 2105 tenancy as I have read that it's only for tenancies starting or renewing after that date? 

I agree that the ball really is in my court, I want to leave but I'm not going to make myself homeless in the process. Unfortunately he cannot see that and he's lucky I am not like that and will not trash the place etc. 

Bookworm225

the length of your tenancy has no impact whatsoever on the validity of the S21, It is either valid or not. With no GSC it is invalid. The rule was applied retrospectively to all tenancies, even those pre dating 2015.

You have known since Feb that you would need to move due to selling. It took you 2 months to decide against buy it yourself and the LL is now giving you a further 4 months to sort yourself out. That is not the behaviour of an unreasonable person.

The LL quite reasonably wants a timeline established. Why did it take you 2 months to decide not to buy it given you have lived there so long? At the moment there is scant evidence that you will leave at all.

Both you and the LL are digging your heels in and "going legal" as it seems to each of you that the other is being "uncooperative". How far down the line are you with your own purchase? If you are progressing an actual property then it is perfectly understandable that you will be annoyed at a S21 route as , although an exact date cannot yet be given, the clock is obviously ticking. On the other hand if you are still looking for a place to buy then the timeline remains open ended so the LL is, not unreasonably, looking to "force" the issue.

FlorayG

I'm pretty sure the gas and electric certificate needs to be current - the difference being that if the tenancy began prior to 2015 then the LL does not need to provide these from prior to that date. For more recent tenancies, LLhas to provide ALL the certificates back to Day One

marcarm

We have had an offer accepted on a house, we have made a mortgage application and waiting for the lender. I have said I want to move, however I cannot give a firm date at the moment, but as soon as I have one I will let him know. If I could go tomorrow then I would, theres nothing more that I want than to be in my own place, the lack of date is because of the house buying process, not me wanting to stay here as long as possible. 

Brie

According to the Shelter website (for England) Is your section 21 notice valid? - Shelter England

Your landlord cannot usually give you a valid section 21 notice unless they give you:

• a gas safety certificate

• an energy performance certificate (EPC)

• the How to rent guide on GOV.UK

This only applies if your tenancy started or was renewed on or after 1 October 2015.

Now I don't know if a rolling tenancy is considered to renew annually but I suspect not.

I also suspect that he'll find it very difficult to sell to a legitimate LL buyer if the certificates are not in place.  And he'll find it difficult to sell to anyone if the place has all sorts of issues.  That might be why he wants you out so he can rectify everything prior to marketing.

But if he wants you out by 2 August then the S21 must be issued (I believe) by 2 June.  

You could try to be as silly as he is and take the S21, wait until 1 August, and then tell him it's not valid due to the missing certs.  He might believe you and start the process again giving you more time to complete you move.  But hopefully your house purchase will proceed quickly and you'll be out sooner and without a fuss.

m0bov

Just tell him you will keep him updated, your happy to do viewings at a mutually agreeable time. You can't give a date as you don't know. That's it. He can't evict you, not can a court due to non compliance with s21. He has no choice other than wait or sell with tenanted status.

marcarm

m0bov said:

Just tell him you will keep him updated, your happy to do viewings at a mutually agreeable time. You can't give a date as you don't know. That's it. He can't evict you, not can a court due to non compliance with s21. He has no choice other than wait or sell with tenanted status.

But is it really non-compliant due to my AST starting in 2009? Thats where I am finding the conflicting information

LoopyLoops

marcarm said:

m0bov said:

Just tell him you will keep him updated, your happy to do viewings at a mutually agreeable time. You can't give a date as you don't know. That's it. He can't evict you, not can a court due to non compliance with s21. He has no choice other than wait or sell with tenanted status.

But is it really non-compliant due to my AST starting in 2009? Thats where I am finding the conflicting information

I found the following on Shelters website ‘Under The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998, landlords must carry out a gas safety inspection every 12 months. A copy of the last gas safety certificate must be given to any new tenant before they move in to the property.’  Hope you find a definitive answer.  But I think you should have a gas safety certificate (and for the s21 to be valid). 

marcarm

But following that, when you go through the S21 validity checker putting in tenancy started before 2015, it does not ask the question about a GSC. Hence my confusion, as Ive found sources which say its not valid without a EICR, not without a GSC, and that is for pre 2015 tenancies, but other sources say those requirements do not need to be met