Housing Benefit, Council Tax Reduction and Savings Query

TimeLord1

This could take ages now that they've suspended it. You need to contact Citizens Advice or welfare rights, because now getting it reinstated could potentially take over a month because of people ahead of you. Have they asked for any other information other than bank statements? Dealing with them, you should supply anything relevant regardless of they ask for it. 

HillStreetBlues

Blancmang25 said:

HillStreetBlues said:

What they are saying is you are the legal owner of the capital but your father is the beneficial owner of the capital. With beneficial ownership it's the onus is always on the claiming it.
EG if it was the other way round and you had your money is your fathers account, it would be up to you to prove it's your money in his account.
All the council can is have a hunch, but that's a long way from any sort of prove.

The housing benefit regulations consider deprivation of capital or income. I expect the council tax reduction scheme for the local authority will have the same regulation. 

It can only be DoC if father has over £10k if over SPA.
As an example if a person over SPA has £7.5k capital, they can spend it or give it away it's not DoC as at that point in time  it won't effect any entitlement so impossible to be DoC. If  6 months later they do the same again, it's still not DoC as same rules apply. They can not go back in time and claim £15k was given away.

Nerdtech

Blancmang25 said:

Hi,
Thanks for the update.
You will need to wait for the decision letters from the benefit section, these letters will have the reason why they have cancelled the hb/ctr claim, the date of cancellation and the amount of the overpayment.
You will also receive new council tax notices for the same period.
When you receive the letters it will inform you of what you can do if you disagree with their decision.
Your situation is complicated.
The money your father receives should have stayed in his account. He should have payed his bills, living expenses etc..just like everybody else.(I am presuming you have paid the bills from your account?)
When his capital, (if he wasn't spending very much) began to accumulate the benefit section needed to know, if his capital was growing, they would have taken a notional income from the capital, which would reduce his hb/ctr award.
Once his capital exceeds £16,000 he is no longer eligible as this is the capital cut off.
Unfortunately as your father is receiving a means tested benefit, the benefit section have/ will make the decision that the money you have in your account is your father's.
I would advise you to contact the Citizens Advice when you receive the hb/ctr decision letters. 
They can advise you on the best way to proceed etc.

Yes obviously now I wish we had kept our accounts separate and paid bills from our respective accounts, you're correct when you say I have paid bills from my account, our money both combined which makes it extra complicated. The benefits person did ask what portion of the savings/capital could possibly be mine to help them work things out but there is no way I can work it out as again our money is combined. He never had any capital growing in his account because as soon as the money went in it was transferred to my account as per his wishes. Over the years capital started to grow in my account and I told my dad there was no need to transfer money from his account anymore as we had more than enough for paying bills etc... but he insisted I still do so because he was worried that something would happen to him and that I would have to phone up the bank and have the account frozen and that any funds left I couldn't access. I didn't want to do this at first but eventually gave in as I want to respect his decisions, it's the last bit of independence he has. I guess he was looking out for his son but it has sadly backfired. It looks like this has already been decided so we will have to see what happens from here. It's already stressful enough being a caregiver, and this might well tip me over the edge which is bad especially for my dad as I might not be able to give him the level of care he needs.

Nerdtech

TimeLord1 said:

This could take ages now that they've suspended it. You need to contact Citizens Advice or welfare rights, because now getting it reinstated could potentially take over a month because of people ahead of you. Have they asked for any other information other than bank statements? Dealing with them, you should supply anything relevant regardless of they ask for it. 

No, only bank statements. I cannot think anything else to give I have explained everything as best as I can.

Rubyroobs

Nerdtech said:

Blancmang25 said:

Hi,
Thanks for the update.
You will need to wait for the decision letters from the benefit section, these letters will have the reason why they have cancelled the hb/ctr claim, the date of cancellation and the amount of the overpayment.
You will also receive new council tax notices for the same period.
When you receive the letters it will inform you of what you can do if you disagree with their decision.
Your situation is complicated.
The money your father receives should have stayed in his account. He should have payed his bills, living expenses etc..just like everybody else.(I am presuming you have paid the bills from your account?)
When his capital, (if he wasn't spending very much) began to accumulate the benefit section needed to know, if his capital was growing, they would have taken a notional income from the capital, which would reduce his hb/ctr award.
Once his capital exceeds £16,000 he is no longer eligible as this is the capital cut off.
Unfortunately as your father is receiving a means tested benefit, the benefit section have/ will make the decision that the money you have in your account is your father's.
I would advise you to contact the Citizens Advice when you receive the hb/ctr decision letters. 
They can advise you on the best way to proceed etc.

Yes obviously now I wish we had kept our accounts separate and paid bills from our respective accounts, you're correct when you say I have paid bills from my account, our money both combined which makes it extra complicated. The benefits person did ask what portion of the savings/capital could possibly be mine to help them work things out but there is no way I can work it out as again our money is combined. He never had any capital growing in his account because as soon as the money went in it was transferred to my account as per his wishes. Over the years capital started to grow in my account and I told my dad there was no need to transfer money from his account anymore as we had more than enough for paying bills etc... but he insisted I still do so because he was worried that something would happen to him and that I would have to phone up the bank and have the account frozen and that any funds left I couldn't access. I didn't want to do this at first but eventually gave in as I want to respect his decisions, it's the last bit of independence he has. I guess he was looking out for his son but it has sadly backfired. It looks like this has already been decided so we will have to see what happens from here. It's already stressful enough being a caregiver, and this might well tip me over the edge which is bad especially for my dad as I might not be able to give him the level of care he needs.

You'd be unlikely to be accumulating much savings when just claiming Carers allowance of £81  a week unless you had savings before this set up started. I wonder if you could claim he was paying you some of his money to care for him, such as giving you his Attendance allowance each week. I don't think there are any rules against this.

Nerdtech

If it would help this is the e-mail I received and the wording used. I have blacked out personal/private info.

Nerdtech

Rubyroobs said:

Nerdtech said:

Blancmang25 said:

Hi,
Thanks for the update.
You will need to wait for the decision letters from the benefit section, these letters will have the reason why they have cancelled the hb/ctr claim, the date of cancellation and the amount of the overpayment.
You will also receive new council tax notices for the same period.
When you receive the letters it will inform you of what you can do if you disagree with their decision.
Your situation is complicated.
The money your father receives should have stayed in his account. He should have payed his bills, living expenses etc..just like everybody else.(I am presuming you have paid the bills from your account?)
When his capital, (if he wasn't spending very much) began to accumulate the benefit section needed to know, if his capital was growing, they would have taken a notional income from the capital, which would reduce his hb/ctr award.
Once his capital exceeds £16,000 he is no longer eligible as this is the capital cut off.
Unfortunately as your father is receiving a means tested benefit, the benefit section have/ will make the decision that the money you have in your account is your father's.
I would advise you to contact the Citizens Advice when you receive the hb/ctr decision letters. 
They can advise you on the best way to proceed etc.

Yes obviously now I wish we had kept our accounts separate and paid bills from our respective accounts, you're correct when you say I have paid bills from my account, our money both combined which makes it extra complicated. The benefits person did ask what portion of the savings/capital could possibly be mine to help them work things out but there is no way I can work it out as again our money is combined. He never had any capital growing in his account because as soon as the money went in it was transferred to my account as per his wishes. Over the years capital started to grow in my account and I told my dad there was no need to transfer money from his account anymore as we had more than enough for paying bills etc... but he insisted I still do so because he was worried that something would happen to him and that I would have to phone up the bank and have the account frozen and that any funds left I couldn't access. I didn't want to do this at first but eventually gave in as I want to respect his decisions, it's the last bit of independence he has. I guess he was looking out for his son but it has sadly backfired. It looks like this has already been decided so we will have to see what happens from here. It's already stressful enough being a caregiver, and this might well tip me over the edge which is bad especially for my dad as I might not be able to give him the level of care he needs.

You'd be unlikely to be accumulating much savings when just claiming Carers allowance of £81  a week unless you had savings before this set up started. I wonder if you could claim he was paying you some of his money to care for him, such as giving you his Attendance allowance each week. I don't think there are any rules against this.

Well with my CA and his State Pension that was already around 300+ a week. Also getting AA every month that is over a 1k a month. I am a frugal person and all I did was pay the bills out of it and day to day living expenses, and also anything he asked for/needed for his care. I never really spent much outside of these essentials so as you can imagine after 9 years of being his caregiver this has built up to a substantial amount. I think part of why I don't spend much, even out of my CA, is that at some level I still feel the money is his and that has at times produced feelings of guilt. 

Rubyroobs

Nerdtech said:

Rubyroobs said:

Nerdtech said:

Blancmang25 said:

Hi,
Thanks for the update.
You will need to wait for the decision letters from the benefit section, these letters will have the reason why they have cancelled the hb/ctr claim, the date of cancellation and the amount of the overpayment.
You will also receive new council tax notices for the same period.
When you receive the letters it will inform you of what you can do if you disagree with their decision.
Your situation is complicated.
The money your father receives should have stayed in his account. He should have payed his bills, living expenses etc..just like everybody else.(I am presuming you have paid the bills from your account?)
When his capital, (if he wasn't spending very much) began to accumulate the benefit section needed to know, if his capital was growing, they would have taken a notional income from the capital, which would reduce his hb/ctr award.
Once his capital exceeds £16,000 he is no longer eligible as this is the capital cut off.
Unfortunately as your father is receiving a means tested benefit, the benefit section have/ will make the decision that the money you have in your account is your father's.
I would advise you to contact the Citizens Advice when you receive the hb/ctr decision letters. 
They can advise you on the best way to proceed etc.

Yes obviously now I wish we had kept our accounts separate and paid bills from our respective accounts, you're correct when you say I have paid bills from my account, our money both combined which makes it extra complicated. The benefits person did ask what portion of the savings/capital could possibly be mine to help them work things out but there is no way I can work it out as again our money is combined. He never had any capital growing in his account because as soon as the money went in it was transferred to my account as per his wishes. Over the years capital started to grow in my account and I told my dad there was no need to transfer money from his account anymore as we had more than enough for paying bills etc... but he insisted I still do so because he was worried that something would happen to him and that I would have to phone up the bank and have the account frozen and that any funds left I couldn't access. I didn't want to do this at first but eventually gave in as I want to respect his decisions, it's the last bit of independence he has. I guess he was looking out for his son but it has sadly backfired. It looks like this has already been decided so we will have to see what happens from here. It's already stressful enough being a caregiver, and this might well tip me over the edge which is bad especially for my dad as I might not be able to give him the level of care he needs.

You'd be unlikely to be accumulating much savings when just claiming Carers allowance of £81  a week unless you had savings before this set up started. I wonder if you could claim he was paying you some of his money to care for him, such as giving you his Attendance allowance each week. I don't think there are any rules against this.

Well with my CA and his State Pension that was already around 300+ a week. Also getting AA every month that is over a 1k a month. I am a frugal person and all I did was pay the bills out of it and day to day living expenses, and also anything he asked for/needed for his care. I never really spent much outside of these essentials so as you can imagine after 9 years of being his caregiver this has built up to a substantial amount. I think part of why I don't spend much, even out of my CA, is that at some level I still feel the money is his and that has at times produced feelings of guilt. 

Yes I guess nearly 2k a month  plus housing benefit money is a significant amount., although I appreciate rent may take a significant chunk.

HillStreetBlues

Nerdtech said:

If it would help this is the e-mail I received and the wording used. I have blacked out personal/private info.

I do not return any money to my father's account as he wants me to keep it as a gift, which he is allow to do as it's his money to spent or give away as he sees fit.
The money in my account is solely mine and none of it is my fathers and he has no claim to it, this is confirmed my both myself and my father.

One issue not relating to the council, is gifting money at tax, you are OK as long as the gifts are under £3k per year.

Nerdtech

HillStreetBlues said:

Nerdtech said:

If it would help this is the e-mail I received and the wording used. I have blacked out personal/private info.

I do not return any money to my father's account as he wants me to keep it as a gift, which he is allow to do as it's his money to spent or give away as he sees fit.
The money in my account is solely mine and none of it is my fathers and he has no claim to it, this is confirmed my both myself and my father.

One issue not relating to the council, is gifting money at tax, you are OK as long as the gifts are under £3k per year.

Thanks for this, I will send an e-mail back and clarify this which I should have done in the first e-mail.