Am I a tenant or lodger?

RAS

Pumpk1N888 said:

Thanks for this. He issued me a Section 21 notice then said, when I was due to leave, that he would offer me a new contract, the lodger agreement! My rent is all inclusive.

What exactly is included? Council Tax? Utilities etc? You need to talk to Shelter. And be aware that the VOA might assess this as a separate dwelling. 

FlorayG

Pumpk1N888 said:

Thanks @FlorayG ... do you happen to know what my rights would be if he has misled me and the council or dodged tax? Based on what people are saying. I am wondering if my studio was an illegal conversion.

Leave well alone. You have a tenant's rights same as you did before all this happened. What your LL does or doesn't do with the money you give him is not your business and I wouldn't want to get mixed up in it.

lincroft1710

RAS said:

Pumpk1N888 said:

Thanks for this. He issued me a Section 21 notice then said, when I was due to leave, that he would offer me a new contract, the lodger agreement! My rent is all inclusive.

What exactly is included? Council Tax? Utilities etc? You need to talk to Shelter. And be aware that the VOA might assess this as a separate dwelling. 

From the OP's description, it should be assessed as a separate dwelling, and if not already assessed, could be backdated and the OP responsible for all CT payments since they took occupation.

Jude57

lincroft1710 said:

RAS said:

Pumpk1N888 said:

Thanks for this. He issued me a Section 21 notice then said, when I was due to leave, that he would offer me a new contract, the lodger agreement! My rent is all inclusive.

What exactly is included? Council Tax? Utilities etc? You need to talk to Shelter. And be aware that the VOA might assess this as a separate dwelling. 

From the OP's description, it should be assessed as a separate dwelling, and if not already assessed, could be backdated and the OP responsible for all CT payments since they took occupation.

Quite correct. Contractual arrangements between parties about utilities and Council Tax do not override the legislation so, as you say, OP could find themselves receiving several years worth of Council Tax bills, all due immediately. For OP's information, you will be charged Council Tax because of the Hierarchy of Liability which sets out who is liable for Council Tax. Owners who don't occupy the premises fall below the occupant of the property. I agree with @lincroft1710 that, because your flat has separate, self-contained facilities, it really should be assessed as a separate property for Council Tax purposes.

As for the landlord issuing a S21, doesn't that tend to prove that the OP has a tenancy? I'm happy to be proved wrong but a lodger doesn't need a S21 as far as I know. It's evidence, in my view, that the landlord knows full well that OP is, and always has been, a tenant, not a lodger.

elsien

FlorayG said:

Pumpk1N888 said:

Thanks @FlorayG ... do you happen to know what my rights would be if he has misled me and the council or dodged tax? Based on what people are saying. I am wondering if my studio was an illegal conversion.

Leave well alone. You have a tenant's rights same as you did before all this happened. What your LL does or doesn't do with the money you give him is not your business and I wouldn't want to get mixed up in it.

Not sure I entirely agree. If he was playing games with me around my tenancy status, I might be tempted to give HMRC a nudge after I had moved elsewhere. 

FlorayG

elsien said:

FlorayG said:

Pumpk1N888 said:

Thanks @FlorayG ... do you happen to know what my rights would be if he has misled me and the council or dodged tax? Based on what people are saying. I am wondering if my studio was an illegal conversion.

Leave well alone. You have a tenant's rights same as you did before all this happened. What your LL does or doesn't do with the money you give him is not your business and I wouldn't want to get mixed up in it.

Not sure I entirely agree. If he was playing games with me around my tenancy status, I might be tempted to give HMRC a nudge after I had moved elsewhere. 

Well yes, but the OP isn't moving out elsewhere. While OP is there, leave things alone

Pumpk1N888

Bookworm225 said:

Pumpk1N888 said:

Thanks @FlorayG ... do you happen to know what my rights would be if he has misled me and the council or dodged tax? Based on what people are saying. I am wondering if my studio was an illegal conversion.

your rights are it remains your tenancy until you, or a court, end it.

his tax affairs are irrelevant to your housing situation and best ignored unless you have hard evidence that you can submit to HMRC as a fraud report. If you can't then what do you think you can do? It just adds to your war with the LL but will achieve nothing.

define "illegal" conversion?
Look at your council's planning portal, if the property had planning permission for conversion to self contained flats that will be on there (unless it was done a VERY long time ago eg: pre 1960s). If was built as self contained flats from the outset it won't.

Thanks, @Bookworm225 ... noted.

My address does not come up as a separate one when I do searches. It shows there are 4 flats in the building when there are 5 if we are to include mine.

FlorayG

Pumpk1N888 said:

Bookworm225 said:

Pumpk1N888 said:

Thanks @FlorayG ... do you happen to know what my rights would be if he has misled me and the council or dodged tax? Based on what people are saying. I am wondering if my studio was an illegal conversion.

your rights are it remains your tenancy until you, or a court, end it.

his tax affairs are irrelevant to your housing situation and best ignored unless you have hard evidence that you can submit to HMRC as a fraud report. If you can't then what do you think you can do? It just adds to your war with the LL but will achieve nothing.

define "illegal" conversion?
Look at your council's planning portal, if the property had planning permission for conversion to self contained flats that will be on there (unless it was done a VERY long time ago eg: pre 1960s). If was built as self contained flats from the outset it won't.

My address does not come up as a separate one when I do searches. It shows there are 4 flats in the building when there are 5 if we are to include mine.

Looks like your LL has converted a connected annex into a separate dwelling without planning or council permission; but it will be him in trouble if the authorities find out, not you as YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT did you? I think this is a Wait And See scenario - perhaps nothing will happen, perhaps the council will find out and come knocking on his door.