Am I a tenant or lodger?

Pumpk1N888

I was on an AST then rolling contract for years then suddenly, my landlord decided that I am a lodger after all so need advice about how to go forward.

The studio flat I live in is self-contained with no shared areas whatsoever with my landlord. Even though we live in the same building, our flats have separate entrances as well.

Is there any way I can challenge this?

elsien

Yes. Tell them an AST doesn’t end and you don’t suddenly become a lodger just because they say you are.
What reason have they given for the change? Who pays the council tax for your flat?

Pumpk1N888

Thanks for this. He issued me a Section 21 notice then said, when I was due to leave, that he would offer me a new contract, the lodger agreement! My rent is all inclusive.

Myci85

Sounds like they want to keep benefiting from your rent payments, but with it getting increasingly difficult for landlords to evict tenants, they are trying it on giving you a lodger agreement, which presumably gives them the right to evict you at short notice with little protection for you.
I don't know enough about it, so could be wrong, but I'm sure I've read other posts on here stating that if you have no shared facilities, and you have a lock on your door, you are a tenant not a lodger, so I would be surprised if the lodger agreement would stand up to scrutiny. Have you signed it?

Bookworm225

your LL is a fool and risks fines and other legal action

you should teach him the rules of when someone is a tenant, or at least be prepared to move as it looks like any relationship you had with them is heading for trouble and repercussion may be inevitable.

Tenant or lodger? - Shelter England

_Penny_Dreadful

Pumpk1N888 said:

I was on an AST then rolling contract for years then suddenly, my landlord decided that I am a lodger after all so need advice about how to go forward.

The studio flat I live in is self-contained with no shared areas whatsoever with my landlord. Even though we live in the same building, our flats have separate entrances as well.

Is there any way I can challenge this?

If you’re in England it’s possible that you’re an occupier with basic protection. 

Are your studio and your landlord’s flat purpose built flats or flats in a converted house? If it’s the former you’re a tenant with an AST and if it’s the latter you’re an occupier with basic protection. 

elsien

_Penny_Dreadful said:

Pumpk1N888 said:

I was on an AST then rolling contract for years then suddenly, my landlord decided that I am a lodger after all so need advice about how to go forward.

The studio flat I live in is self-contained with no shared areas whatsoever with my landlord. Even though we live in the same building, our flats have separate entrances as well.

Is there any way I can challenge this?

If you’re in England it’s possible that you’re an occupier with basic protection. 

Are your studio and your landlord’s flat purpose built flats or flats in a converted house? If it’s the former you’re a tenant with an AST and if it’s the latter you’re an occupier with basic protection. 

I’m not sure I follow the logic in that last paragraph. If it’s a  flat with separate entrance and no shared facilities, in what way is the OP an occupier rather than a tenant? I lived in a flat in a converted house and I was definitely a tenant.

Pumpk1N888

Thanks @Myci85 @Bookworm225 @_Penny_Dreadfuland @elsien

It is a converted house with 2 other flats (not landlord's). I do not have any shared facilities with them and have my own entrance and a lock on my door. I did sign the agreement as I was under a lot of stress and had not found somewhere else. I did seek legal advice (from university) then and was told to sign it and then contest it later. I however felt that the advisers were dismissive of me because that is not the type of case they deal with.

Voyager2002

Pumpk1N888 said:

Thanks @Myci85 @Bookworm225 @_Penny_Dreadfuland @elsien

It is a converted house with 2 other flats (not landlord's). I do not have any shared facilities with them and have my own entrance and a lock on my door. I did sign the agreement as I was under a lot of stress and had not found somewhere else. I did seek legal advice (from university) then and was told to sign it and then contest it later. I however felt that the advisers were dismissive of me because that is not the type of case they deal with.

Whether or not they were dismissive of you, the advice they gave was good.

If it ever becomes an issue in the future, a court would very easily determine that you are still a tenant with all the rights that an AST conveys, with the piece of paper that you signed being dismissed as a "sham contract".

If your landlord offers to do your cleaning for you (or anything else that would give them the right to enter your room without first making an appointment) politely decline.
(NB this answer is based on a case in 2021 when I received some very detailed legal advice. I do not know if the law has changed since then.)

Baldytyke88

Pumpk1N888 said:

Thanks for this. He issued me a Section 21 notice then said, when I was due to leave, that he would offer me a new contract, the lodger agreement! My rent is all inclusive.

He may have ended your tenancy, but he would need a court order to force you to leave. Just going by what I have seen on TV

What are his motives, is he wanting you to pay more?

Pumpk1N888

Voyager2002 said:

Pumpk1N888 said:

Thanks @Myci85 @Bookworm225 @_Penny_Dreadfuland @elsien

It is a converted house with 2 other flats (not landlord's). I do not have any shared facilities with them and have my own entrance and a lock on my door. I did sign the agreement as I was under a lot of stress and had not found somewhere else. I did seek legal advice (from university) then and was told to sign it and then contest it later. I however felt that the advisers were dismissive of me because that is not the type of case they deal with.

Whether or not they were dismissive of you, the advice they gave was good.

If it ever becomes an issue in the future, a court would very easily determine that you are still a tenant with all the rights that an AST conveys, with the piece of paper that you signed being dismissed as a "sham contract".

If your landlord offers to do your cleaning for you (or anything else that would give them the right to enter your room without first making an appointment) politely decline.
(NB this answer is based on a case in 2021 when I received some very detailed legal advice. I do not know if the law has changed since then.)

That is reassuring. No, I won't allow him access unless strictly necessary (repairs, for example).