Chargeback- Trader changed written terms and i pointed out. Now they are ghosting me

Tree10

Hi, I ordered some custom-made fittings in October and paid over 1k w debit card to Ltd company. They were meant to be installed before Christmas. The written contract said a payment of 1k via card  is due when goods delivered. then a small sum to be paid directly to the fitters in cash after installation.
Long story short- communication has been very poor with different days arranged for the fitter to come in and nobody showed up or when they came, a month later another person was send in to "just to bet sure the first measurements were right". Nevertheless, installation date would be January. After New years eve I hadn't heard back so I contacted company. They said that we were told it would take a few months to make goods and they dont have a date yet. 3 months later, after a very stern email i got a response in April: They had a installation date which they will confirm once we pay 7 days in advance. i pointed out to what our written contract and emails say. they didnt reply until we sent an informal letter before action. They said they had verbally explained this payment to us. We asked that due to previous issues, we would prefer keeping with the terms we signed for, and offered to pay when the fitters come, prior anything is installed. They emailed saying that they would consult with the owner and someone else would call to arrange a new date with us. Nobody called back. Rang the company, got fobbed off by secretary. After getting Consumerline advice i send a "Letter before action" to the company. No reply. Annoying because if the trader had called me, explain me the reasoning and reassure me i would have agreed. Now they are ghosting us.  

Consumerline said that a Chargeback was appropriate in this case, so i filed one with Nationwide. 4 days after, it was rejected because "this is a dispute, the trader wanted to install but you declined to pay in advance". Which is not what happened: we pointed out that that was not in our written contract and offered an alternative, and from then onwards the company has ghosted us. They didnt give us an ultimatum "pay in advance or you get nothing" but "the owner will contact you and somebody else will ring you to get a new installation date".

We spoke to NW by phone to put into context our claim: 1. they changed terms of written contract 6 months after signed via email. 2. lack of communication (since we pointed out this was not in the contract) means that the goods are not with us. 3. Right to have the goods installed within a reasonable timeframe (impossible if they dont speak to us).

NW has rejected claim again as "the reasons you have given are breach of contract, which are not part of the visa chargeback scheme". Nevertheless Chargeback applies if you dont get your goods at all, which i cant as they are not replying to my calls/emails. How can i phrase my point properly??? Will it help to escalate my NW complain to ombusman?

born_again

Tree10 said:

Hi, I ordered some custom-made fittings in October and paid over 1k w debit card to Ltd company. They were meant to be installed before Christmas. The written contract said a payment of 1k via card  is due when goods delivered. then a small sum to be paid directly to the fitters in cash after installation.
Long story short- communication has been very poor with different days arranged for the fitter to come in and nobody showed up or when they came, a month later another person was send in to "just to bet sure the first measurements were right". Nevertheless, installation date would be January. After New years eve I hadn't heard back so I contacted company. They said that we were told it would take a few months to make goods and they dont have a date yet. 3 months later, after a very stern email i got a response in April: They had a installation date which they will confirm once we pay 7 days in advance. i pointed out to what our written contract and emails say. they didnt reply until we sent an informal letter before action. They said they had verbally explained this payment to us. We asked that due to previous issues, we would prefer keeping with the terms we signed for, and offered to pay when the fitters come, prior anything is installed. They emailed saying that they would consult with the owner and someone else would call to arrange a new date with us. Nobody called back. Rang the company, got fobbed off by secretary. After getting Consumerline advice i send a "Letter before action" to the company. No reply. Annoying because if the trader had called me, explain me the reasoning and reassure me i would have agreed. Now they are ghosting us.  

Consumerline said that a Chargeback was appropriate in this case, so i filed one with Nationwide. 4 days after, it was rejected because "this is a dispute, the trader wanted to install but you declined to pay in advance". Which is not what happened: we pointed out that that was not in our written contract and offered an alternative, and from then onwards the company has ghosted us. They didnt give us an ultimatum "pay in advance or you get nothing" but "the owner will contact you and somebody else will ring you to get a new installation date".

We spoke to NW by phone to put into context our claim: 1. they changed terms of written contract 6 months after signed via email. 2. lack of communication (since we pointed out this was not in the contract) means that the goods are not with us. 3. Right to have the goods installed within a reasonable timeframe (impossible if they dont speak to us).

NW has rejected claim again as "the reasons you have given are breach of contract, which are not part of the visa chargeback scheme". Nevertheless Chargeback applies if you dont get your goods at all, which i cant as they are not replying to my calls/emails. How can i phrase my point properly??? Will it help to escalate my NW complain to ombudsman?

If the chargeback has been rejected, that is the end of the matter as far as NW & chargeback regulations go.
You only get one chance to do a chargeback.
ombudsman can't do anything if this is what has happened.

You are looking at letter before action & taking it to money claim online.

Tree10

We have already send a letter before action. What is “money claim online”? 

This is confusing, consumer line told me my case fell under chargeback scheme and I could go to financial ombudsman if unhappy. 

7 months after paying and I haven’t received goods and now they are now replying to emails phone calls and they have closed down their showroom  (but company is still showing as active in hrmc). How do so many people get refunded when they dont get their goods?  

Alderbank

Tree10 said:

We have already send a letter before action. What is “money claim online”? 

This is confusing...

Yes it is.

Which country are you in?

In your letter before action, what action did you say you would escalate to if they did not respond within 14 days or whatever?

Tree10

Alderbank said:

Tree10 said:

We have already send a letter before action. What is “money claim online”? 

This is confusing...

Yes it is.

Which country are you in?

In your letter before action, what action did you say you would escalate to if they did not respond within 14 days or whatever?

Northern Ireland. Yes I did state that I would escalate including legal action. 

But I think they might close the company soon: closed showroom, no SM activity and loads of recent bad reviews everywhere 

Alderbank

In NI, MoneyClaim On Line (MCOL) is the process which you would escalate to if the sum in dispute is less than £3,000.
You just say the claim is 'in excess of 1k'. To start a claim you apply online at Northern Ireland Court Service in Belfast.

If your claim totals more than £3,000 you can't use MCOL. In NI you would have to apply to the Crown court which is more challenging.

https://www.mylawyer.co.uk/making-a-claim-northern-ireland-a-A76076D76978/#:~:text=If%20your%20claim%20is%20for%20%C2%A33%2C000%20and,Service%20to%20commence%20your%20claim%20securely%20online.&text=You%20can%20also%20obtain%20an%20application%20form,the%20form%20and%20what%20fees%20to%20include.

Tree10

Thank you! It is less than 3k.  Looking through the link it seems that this is  going through small claims court? I have seeked legal advice but trying to avoid the smalls claims route (basically it takes ages, extra costs plus small claims cannot even enforce them to pay me back especially if the company dissolves). 

Disappointed at myself for the chargeback case. Basically if you order a pizza, dont get it, contact the pizza place and they stop answering your calls/emails- you claim chargeback and you get it (the disputes team agreed this with me). my case is the same, i just muddled things up by mentioning all the "breaches of contract" and the consumer act as Costumerline told  me to do this. I have put a complaint with Nationwide and yes, i can go to the financial ombudsman according to the last paraphragh here:https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/visa-mastercard-chargeback/

Olenna

Tree10 said:

Thank you! It is less than 3k.  Looking through the link it seems that this is  going through small claims court? I have seeked legal advice but trying to avoid the smalls claims route (basically it takes ages, extra costs plus small claims cannot even enforce them to pay me back especially if the company dissolves). 

Disappointed at myself for the chargeback case. Basically if you order a pizza, dont get it, contact the pizza place and they stop answering your calls/emails- you claim chargeback and you get it (the disputes team agreed this with me). my case is the same, i just muddled things up by mentioning all the "breaches of contract" and the consumer act as Costumerline told  me to do this. I have put a complaint with Nationwide and yes, i can go to the financial ombudsman according to the last paraphragh here:https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/visa-mastercard-chargeback/

Chargeback isn't meant to be some kind of detailed disputes process. The FOS may not be what you're looking for as they'd essentially be looking to see if Nationwide (and you) followed the Visa chargeback rules correctly.

The main issue here is you paid the principal funds upfront so there is little incentive for a less diligent retailer to help you. Your primary recourse is the courts here unfortunately. 

Tree10

Olenna said:

Chargeback isn't meant to be some kind of detailed disputes process. The FOS may not be what you're looking for as they'd essentially be looking to see if Nationwide (and you) followed the Visa chargeback rules correctly.

The main issue here is you paid the principal funds upfront so there is little incentive for a less diligent retailer to help you. Your primary recourse is the courts here unfortunately. 

But there is no dispute here. Letter before action asked to get an installation date or a refund. They ignored.
I ordered something. Didnt get it. Talked to seller. They are ghosting me. Everyone that applies for a chargeback has their background story, but the end of the matter is that they did not received the goods. 

born_again

Tree10 said:

We have already send a letter before action. What is “money claim online”? 

This is confusing, consumer line told me my case fell under chargeback scheme and I could go to financial ombudsman if unhappy. 

7 months after paying and I haven’t received goods and now they are now replying to emails phone calls and they have closed down their showroom  (but company is still showing as active in hrmc). How do so many people get refunded when they dont get their goods?  

You only get 120 days from payment for a chargeback. Unless retailer specifies a date for delivery. Which would bring it back within the 120 days. (up to a max of 540 days from debit)

You can go to ombudsman, but if chargeback regulations have been followed then there is nothing they can do. If retailer contests, again that is the end. Although there is the option to contest this (Pre Arbitration) where Visa would sit as judge & jury & make a discission. But there is only 21 days to do that from rejection & then only if applicable.

Chargebacks are over & above your legal rights. They do not mirror consumer rights. 

eskbanker

Tree10 said:

Olenna said:

Chargeback isn't meant to be some kind of detailed disputes process. The FOS may not be what you're looking for as they'd essentially be looking to see if Nationwide (and you) followed the Visa chargeback rules correctly.

The main issue here is you paid the principal funds upfront so there is little incentive for a less diligent retailer to help you. Your primary recourse is the courts here unfortunately. 

But there is no dispute here. Letter before action asked to get an installation date or a refund. They ignored.
I ordered something. Didnt get it. Talked to seller. They are ghosting me. Everyone that applies for a chargeback has their background story, but the end of the matter is that they did not received the goods. 

There clearly is a dispute here!  You haven't got what you paid for, the supplier has tried varying the contract terms but you're (not unreasonably) resisting, communications have broken down, you've issued a letter which threatens legal action, and have attempted to reclaim your money via a third party - if that doesn't scream 'dispute' to you then what would?