Lowell query re CCA

penguin10

Hi - My sister has sent many CCA letters and some have come back saying no info can be provided so she has stopped paying (took a lot of persuasion to convince her it was ok to do this!).
She has a debt with Lowell and shortly after she sent the letter (about 2 months ago) they wrote saying they have asked Creation (original credit card) for the documents & aim to provide it within 12 days. She stopped payments towards it.
Meantime they have now written so say since they (Lowell) are not the original creditor they are not under any obligation to send the documents to me. The requirement is only applicable whilst the agreement remains active (which was the case when it was with Creation) but that account is now closed and the agreement terminated.
Am I right in telling her that this changes nothing - the debt is still unenforceable and its ok that she has stopped making payments towards it?
Thanks

Rob5342

It doesn't matter what they say, if they haven't supplied the cca within 12 days of you asking for it then they cant take legal action to enforce the debt, so you.can simply ignore it. 

DankVielen

penguin10 said:

Hi - My sister has sent many CCA letters and some have come back saying no info can be provided so she has stopped paying (took a lot of persuasion to convince her it was ok to do this!).
She has a debt with Lowell and shortly after she sent the letter (about 2 months ago) they wrote saying they have asked Creation (original credit card) for the documents & aim to provide it within 12 days. She stopped payments towards it.
Meantime they have now written so say since they (Lowell) are not the original creditor they are not under any obligation to send the documents to me. The requirement is only applicable whilst the agreement remains active (which was the case when it was with Creation) but that account is now closed and the agreement terminated.
Am I right in telling her that this changes nothing - the debt is still unenforceable and its ok that she has stopped making payments towards it?
Thanks

Rob is spot on
Honestly, Lowell are one of the lowest forms of life on this planet.
Have a look at this page from Debt Camel where you can hear some of the total nonsense they spout and responses that put them in their place.
https://debtcamel.co.uk/hoist-debt-sold-to-lowell/comment-page-1/#comments
Hopefully this will reassure your sister and get these vermin off her back.

fatbelly

Suggest that they train their staff to better understand the Consumer Credit Act

Particularly the definitions section at the end where creditor is defined as the person to whom the rights and duties have been passed by assignment

sourcrates

When companies such as Lowell buy these debts, they do so in bulk, many 1000`s of accounts at a time.

When they are sold, the debts are legally assigned to Lowell, that means they transfer all rights and privileges of the original creditor, to Lowell, so it looks like a lack of diligence on Lowell`s part training their staff here.

You might want to write back and correct them.

penguin10

Thank you all for confirming this - I will pass on the info

penguin10

Hope its ok to add on another query this time re LINK.
For some accounts, my sister got the letter from LINK stating no CCA could be provided.
but in relation to an old mbna credit card the letter states:
"enclosed documents re section 77/78 request under the CCA 1974...provided by original vendor ...account now enforceable ....this completes our obligations under 77/78 of the Act"
What they sent was what to me looks like a copy of an online application form from 2003 with her details (inc employer/other credit card debts/bank details and even password!.) That was one page. 
Then another 3 pages with lots of sections and small print. 
1st 3 lines are:
"Terms & Conditions" 
"Please refer to your Credit Agreement for conditions 1,2 and 3"
"4. Authorised users"

Sections are noted from 4 to 19.  There's nothing "personal" on this document at all.

I am wondering have they actually sent her the CCA document that she requested?  I suspect not.
If so, should she now write to them again reiterating her request?
Thanks 

sourcrates

Quite common for them to supply a copy of an application form and some bits and bobs T`s & C`s, none of which is a credit agreement, nor constitutes an adequate response to her request.

She can tell them they have not satisfied her request in the slightest.

Debt camel and National debtline list  what an adequate response  to a sec 77 request should be, and that isn`t it.

penguin10

That's great news - thank you so much

penguin10

Hi following on from this...my sister wrote to Link again to say they hadn't sent the correct info.
They have written back saying "we sent this to you in March but here it is again .... so its enforceable".
Is it worth her writing back again to say please read my first letter?  She has stopped payment that used to go via payplan.

DankVielen

I think that this is the Debt Camel link that Sourcrates was referring to

https://debtcamel.co.uk/ask-cca-agreement-for-debt/#How_can_you_tell_if_it_is_right

This also helpful

https://debtcamel.co.uk/debt-collector-cant-prove-debt/

and this is the one for National Debtline

https://nationaldebtline.org/get-information/guides/credit-agreements-getting-information-ew/

This is also helpful

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/13/1.html

I would drop them a line with a BCC to another email you have so you have email meta data.

Something along the lines below

========================================================

Dear Sir/Madam

Re:A/C No.12345

Further to your reply to my Section 77/78 request, you have failed to comply with the request within 12 days and the document you did provide is not what is legally required and does not comply with the legislation.

I am sure you realise this and your attempt to allege otherwise is a breach of FCA CONC rules.

I refer you to CONC 13.1.6 which states:

• Failure to comply with the provisions means that the agreement becomes unenforceable while the failure to comply persists, and the courts have no discretion to allow enforcement.

• In such cases, a firm should in no way, either by act or omission, mislead a customer as to the enforceability of the agreement.

• In particular, a firm should not in such cases either threaten court action or other enforcement of the debt or imply that the debt is enforceable when it is not.

• The firm should, in any request for payment or communication relating to a payment (other than a statement issued in accordance with the CCA or regulations made under it which does not constitute or contain a request for payment) in such cases, make clear to the customer that although the debt remains outstanding it is unenforceable.

The alleged debt is now unenforceable and I will not be making any further payments towards it as you have totally failed in satisfying the CCA request in accordance with the legislation.

You are also in breach of the FCA Consumer duty, if you do not cease and desist your breaches of these regulations I will file an FOS complaint against your firm and will seek evidence online that your behaviour in this regard is widespread and therefore also an issue for review by the FCA and your licencing.

Yours faithfully

A Penguin

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