Flat To Flat Leak, Who Pays The Excess

TheGreenFrog

outtatune said:

Lots of absolute tosh being talked on this thread.

Unless you were negligent (e.g. you knew there was a leak and allowed it to continue without getting it fixed in a reasonable amount of time) then you are not liable for the damage to the flat below.
https://fraserbond.com/blog/article/understanding-liability-who-is-responsible-for-a-water-leak-from-an-upstairs-flat-in-the-uk-b7111

You are of course responsible for fixing the leak, but not responsible for the damage to other flats.

That is what their insurance is for. If they don't like paying the excess then they should have taken out a different policy.

I think all the posts are essentially consistent.  The differences lie in the interpretation of what constitutes negligence in practice.  For example, failure to maintain is negligence but does not require knowledge of the leak.  If the leak emanates from your plumbing then you start on the back foot and easiest thing to do if neighbour is claiming damages is to speak to your insurers.  They can then argue with the neighbour as to who is liable if they want.

TheGreenFrog

Might also be worth checking exactly what insurance the flats have.  Often there will be block of flats policy - this covers the buildings.  Each flat-owner might then have their own policy which will cover contents.  In the case of a water leak requiring repair to plaster and redecoration etc, coverage might be under the buildings section (i.e. the block of flats policy) rather than under the contents section.

WIAWSNB

TheGreenFrog said:

Damage to property caused by a leak from a pipe or fitting for which you are responsible will almost certainly result in you being liable for that damage. 
From your description it sounds as though the leak and damage was caused by plumbing for which you are responsible. So you are almost certainly liable. 
Your next step should be to notify your insurer; you should be covered under the Public Liability section of your insurance.  Your insurers will hopefully accept that you are covered and you can refer your neighbour to them!  You will have to pay any excess on your policy.

I think that is seriously overstating the case.

Negligence is actually quite hard to prove, and the onus would be on the 'wronged' party to do so. Yes, of course, if one has been negligent, then they should 'fess up.

I don't think contacting your insurance co 'just in case' is necessarily a wise move either, sadly, as it'll often complicate matters.

Certainly not in this case. :-)

TheGreenFrog

WIAWSNB said:

I think that is seriously overstating the case.

Negligence is actually quite hard to prove, and the onus would be on the 'wronged' party to do so. Yes, of course, if one has been negligent, then they should 'fess up.

I don't think contacting your insurance co 'just in case' is necessarily a wise move either, sadly, as it'll often complicate matters.

Certainly not in this case. :-)

Yes, I agree I did overstate potential liability.  But this will be an insured event, and expectation will be that loss is claimed under insurance.  I would leave it to insurers to sort.  But it may be that the relevant policy is in fact a general buildings policy covering all flats and managing agent is just ducking out.    

WIAWSNB

TheGreenFrog said:

Yes, I agree I did overstate potential liability.  But this will be an insured event, and expectation will be that loss is claimed under insurance.  I would leave it to insurers to sort.  But it may be that the relevant policy is in fact a general buildings policy covering all flats and managing agent is just ducking out.    

Yes, I've certainly seen some threads on here where the ManCo has been reluctant to act in such cases where they almost certainly should.

Given the info on this situation, tho', I personally would not contact my insurance co at all. This neighb has a stain on his ceiling, and is taking the mick with his £1k quote. He shouldn't be given any credence whatsoever. It should be up to him entirely to pursue this if he believes he has a legit claim. Which he doesn't.

Once you contact your insurance, 'things' tend to happen which grey the water.

GDB2222

This stuff is very good:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/zinsser-400ml-white-matt-stain-block-ceiling-spray-paint/7447H

Flugelhorn

WIAWSNB said:

TheGreenFrog said:

Yes, I agree I did overstate potential liability.  But this will be an insured event, and expectation will be that loss is claimed under insurance.  I would leave it to insurers to sort.  But it may be that the relevant policy is in fact a general buildings policy covering all flats and managing agent is just ducking out.    

Yes, I've certainly seen some threads on here where the ManCo has been reluctant to act in such cases where they almost certainly should.

Given the info on this situation, tho', I personally would not contact my insurance co at all. This neighb has a stain on his ceiling, and is taking the mick with his £1k quote. He shouldn't be given any credence whatsoever. It should be up to him entirely to pursue this if he believes he has a legit claim. Which he doesn't.

Once you contact your insurance, 'things' tend to happen which grey the water.

I am aware of some flats where the management company is reluctant to go to the insurance company for water leaks as the excess is now £1000 - they get their own contractors to do the work instead - the resident / owner is liable for fixing the leak but they deal with the damage 

CatThomLilPic

Thanks again for all the comments! Have been very helpful.

I’ve managed to get a reply from my neighbour. He’s told me that the reason the insurance rejected the claim was “ Because it’s happened twice in a short time. “

This goes back to September 2023, where he instructed of a leak in the en suite. My management company got involved with this, they sent a plumber who identified our shower drain pipe to be leaking underneath the unit. He then got the ceiling repaired under the management company insurance which I paid the excess on.

Would this have an impact on the current incident? As the leak was from a different part of the shower. We got it sorted as soon as the leak was made aware of to us and it’s his insurance that have rejected the claim (not the management company one which was used last time).

Sorry I should have mentioned before, just didn’t think it would impact this incident at all. Being a different leak and about 18 months ago

Thanks

WIAWSNB

It might make the insurance co wary, if they suspect it's the same cause - but it isn't. You can evidence this with your invoice, and I don't see any reason to not allow your neighb a copy of this.

This is not negligence. You are not liable.

The rest is up to him.

"I understand it must be frustrating, but that doesn't alter the fact that it's how these situations are handled when someone wasn't negligent."

subjecttocontract

The way to look at it is that YOU are not responsible for gravity and the resulting damage caused, unless it can be proven that you have been negligent. It's often bad news for the people in the property below but that's how things are. Any contribution you decide to make would be entirely voluntary but the neighbour sounds that he's gonna be upset with anything less than full reimbursement.......so I guess he's just gonna have to get used to being upset !