Flat To Flat Leak, Who Pays The Excess

CatThomLilPic

Hi,
First time post, so hopefully I’ve put this in the correct place.

I live in a 1st Floor Flat with my Partner. I was notified by my neighbour (In the flat below) that he had water leaking through the ceiling. I immediately rushed home from work to turn the water off. Within the same day I managed to get a plumber to come out and carry out the relevant repair.

He replaced our shower mixer as he’d informed me it was leaking from behind the plasterboard and down into his flat.

Due to the plumber carrying out the repair and there being no signs of damage in our flat we don’t need to contact our insurance.

My neighbour contacted the management agent, who have told him due to it being flat to flat they will not get involved. (We both own our flats).

The below flat has contacted his insurance, and has given them our insurance details to claim off of.

He is now asking us to pay the excess. Is this something I am expected to pay? As, he is the one wanting to make a claim and I was not aware of any leak prior to this day.

Hopefully I have explained this well enough! Thank you in advance.

TimeLord1

Your neighbor's insurance company is likely to require them to pay an excess, and they are asking you to cover this cost. Or share the cost as your leak damaged his flat. Depends if you want to live a happier life or fall out really.

CatThomLilPic

Thank you for the reply. 

My neighbour has been very hard work in the past with various things.

He is now claiming that the insurance claim has been rejected, but not giving me a reason why. What would you advise my next step to be? As he got a quote for the repair at around £1,000 for stain blocking & painting the ceiling.

WIAWSNB

CatThomLilPic said:

I live in a 1st Floor Flat with my Partner. I was notified by my neighbour (In the flat below) that he had water leaking through the ceiling. I immediately rushed home from work to turn the water off. Within the same day I managed to get a plumber to come out and carry out the relevant repair.
He replaced our shower mixer as he’d informed me it was leaking from behind the plasterboard and down into his flat.
Due to the plumber carrying out the repair and there being no signs of damage in our flat we don’t need to contact our insurance.
My neighbour contacted the management agent, who have told him due to it being flat to flat they will not get involved. (We both own our flats).

The below flat has contacted his insurance, and has given them our insurance details to claim off of.
He is now asking us to pay the excess. Is this something I am expected to pay? As, he is the one wanting to make a claim and I was not aware of any leak prior to this day.
Hopefully I have explained this well enough! Thank you in advance.

If the leak from your flat was not down to negligence on your part - and, from what you have described, it wasn't - then you are not 'liable' for any damage caused to the other flat.

You had the choice of paying directly for the repairs to your property, or claiming on your insurance - and you chose the former.

There should end the tale.

Your neighbour contacted the building Freeholder, and they confirmed they are not involved in this matter (eg via maintenance or the communal buildings insurance) as it wasn't a leak from within the main building fabric, like, for example, the mains water supplies, or sewer system. And that is fair enough.

So, your neighbour has the same choice you had; they either pay to have it fixed themselves, or they claim on their contents insurance. Or they DIY it - ~£50 of materials.

That, I understand, is the situation.

If his insurance co tries to claim off yours, then that's up to them. I don't think they'll get very far, and it's nothing to do with you. If he tries, then your ins co may ask you what the cause of the leak was, and how it was repaired, and that should stop their claim in its tracks.

He now claims that his insurance have rejected his claim? Hmmm... I suspect what he means is that either he doesn't have contents insurance (and that is his call), or that he does, but his insurance advised him that he'd be responsible for the excess, as they cannot make you - the flat above - liable for this. So, he's almost certainly being eco with the facts.

What to do about this is up to you. If you don't like the guy, and you're inclined to believe he deserves zero goodwill from you based on previous behaviour, then you simply tell him that 'you are not liable for the leak, and hence any damage caused. Soz, and all that, but you have the same choice I had - to claim on your own policy, or to just get it fixed.'

Or - and this is entirely up to you - you can decide on a gesture (no, not that one...) such as, say, offering to pay the 'compulsory' part of his insurance excess, or the 'voluntary' part, whichever is the least. But, he'd have to evidence this amount and that he has made the insurance claim, and it wouldn't be any admission of liability. You'd do this only if you wanted to.

Your call.

If your neighb was a decent fellow, then I think many folk would be inclined to consider this sort of thing, but if an unpleasant fellow, forget it. In either case, they'd have to understand it was a generous thing for you to do, and not an entitlement, 'cos it ain't.

sheenas

I live in a flat myself and not sure I agree with above. My takes is generally, the owner/landlord of the flat above is responsible for a leak originating from their property and causing damage to the flat below. This includes fixing the leak itself and repairing any damage caused by it, like to the ceiling or plasterwork. However, if the leak originates from communal pipes, the responsibility may fall on the landlord or managing agent, potentially covered by building insurance or service charges. I think it reasonable for them to ask for the access to be cover as this is an out of pocket expense cause by the leak.

CatThomLilPic

WIAWSNB said:

CatThomLilPic said:

I live in a 1st Floor Flat with my Partner. I was notified by my neighbour (In the flat below) that he had water leaking through the ceiling. I immediately rushed home from work to turn the water off. Within the same day I managed to get a plumber to come out and carry out the relevant repair.
He replaced our shower mixer as he’d informed me it was leaking from behind the plasterboard and down into his flat.
Due to the plumber carrying out the repair and there being no signs of damage in our flat we don’t need to contact our insurance.
My neighbour contacted the management agent, who have told him due to it being flat to flat they will not get involved. (We both own our flats).

The below flat has contacted his insurance, and has given them our insurance details to claim off of.
He is now asking us to pay the excess. Is this something I am expected to pay? As, he is the one wanting to make a claim and I was not aware of any leak prior to this day.
Hopefully I have explained this well enough! Thank you in advance.

If the leak from your flat was not down to negligence on your part - and, from what you have described, it wasn't - then you are not 'liable' for any damage caused to the other flat.

You had the choice of paying directly for the repairs to your property, or claiming on your insurance - and you chose the former.

There should end the tale.

Your neighbour contacted the building Freeholder, and they confirmed they are not involved in this matter (eg via maintenance or the communal buildings insurance) as it wasn't a leak from within the main building fabric, like, for example, the mains water supplies, or sewer system. And that is fair enough.

So, your neighbour has the same choice you had; they either pay to have it fixed themselves, or they claim on their contents insurance. Or they DIY it - ~£50 of materials.

That, I understand, is the situation.

If his insurance co tries to claim off yours, then that's up to them. I don't think they'll get very far, and it's nothing to do with you. If he tries, then your ins co may ask you what the cause of the leak was, and how it was repaired, and that should stop their claim in its tracks.

He now claims that his insurance have rejected his claim? Hmmm... I suspect what he means is that either he doesn't have contents insurance (and that is his call), or that he does, but his insurance advised him that he'd be responsible for the excess, as they cannot make you - the flat above - liable for this. So, he's almost certainly being eco with the facts.

What to do about this is up to you. If you don't like the guy, and you're inclined to believe he deserves zero goodwill from you based on previous behaviour, then you simply tell him that 'you are not liable for the leak, and hence any damage caused. Soz, and all that, but you have the same choice I had - to claim on your own policy, or to just get it fixed.'

Or - and this is entirely up to you - you can decide on a gesture (no, not that one...) such as, say, offering to pay the 'compulsory' part of his insurance excess, or the 'voluntary' part, whichever is the least. But, he'd have to evidence this amount and that he has made the insurance claim, and it wouldn't be any admission of liability. You'd do this only if you wanted to.

Your call.

If your neighb was a decent fellow, then I think many folk would be inclined to consider this sort of thing, but if an unpleasant fellow, forget it. In either case, they'd have to understand it was a generous thing for you to do, and not an entitlement, 'cos it ain't.

Thank you so much for the detailed response, I’ve asked again why it’s been rejected. If he still doesn’t give me a reason I will leave it for him to sort, explaining either he needs to take it up with his insurance or pay for the DIY.

It’s also frustrating as my neighbour above had a leak approx 3 months ago, which with stain blocker & paint I rectified myself. (Less than £50 cost).

He’s been very rude to all the neighbours in the block. Also it’s his “mate” who runs a business that got the quote for the works required, which I don’t fully trust.

He’s threatened suing people before for silly things previously. I think it’s a “scare” tactics of his. I just didn’t want him to have any value in it, in my case.


Thanks again

WIAWSNB

sheenas said:

I live in a flat myself and not sure I agree with above. My takes is generally, the owner/landlord of the flat above is responsible for a leak originating from their property and causing damage to the flat below. This includes fixing the leak itself and repairing any damage caused by it, like to the ceiling or plasterwork. However, if the leak originates from communal pipes, the responsibility may fall on the landlord or managing agent, potentially covered by building insurance or service charges. I think it reasonable for them to ask for the access to be cover as this is an out of pocket expense cause by the leak.

I was initially of your thinking, but have had it clarified on this forum that I got it wrong.

If you are 'negligent' in the cause of the leak, then that's a different matter, and you would be liable. For instance, continuing to use a shower knowing it had a leak. DIYing an incompetent repair that ditto. Allowing water to spill and not wiping it up - that sort of thing.

But a shower that spontaneously springs a leak through no fault of the owner - which they are inclined to do at some point over time - no.

In both the OP's and the neighbour's case here, it is what their own individual insurance is for. The policies should make it clear what's included.

WIAWSNB

CatThomLilPic said:

Thank you so much for the detailed response, I’ve asked again why it’s been rejected. If he still doesn’t give me a reason I will leave it for him to sort, explaining either he needs to take it up with his insurance or pay for the DIY.
It’s also frustrating as my neighbour above had a leak approx 3 months ago, which with stain blocker & paint I rectified myself. (Less than £50 cost). That was the correct outcome. Had the damage been more severe, then you could have claimed on your insurance. Had the damage been caused by negligence, then you could have climed of theirs - or sued them.
He’s been very rude to all the neighbours in the block. Also it’s his “mate” who runs a business that got the quote for the works required, which I don’t fully trust. Highly dodgy indeed. If this were a valid claim in any sense, then he'd need to get three quotes.
He’s threatened suing people before for silly things previously. I think it’s a “scare” tactics of his. I just didn’t want him to have any value in it, in my case. And there's the rub. He's a chancer (I'm being kind).
Thanks again

Bits in bold.^

This sounds like the sort of fellow who'll twist and turn and use every possible 'argument', so it's best to not get sucked in to this, discussing things like the number of quotes, who is liable, the alleged cost of the repair, and stuff like that. I'd stick to the mantra, and don't become involved in any discussion over it; "I am not liable for the leak, and therefore not liable for any damage caused by it. Soz, and all that, but you have the same choice I had - to claim on your own policy, or to just get it fixed yourself. If you truly believe that this is not the case, then present the evidence. Until then, the matter is closed."

It'll also serve you well going forwards - he'll have learned where the line is drawn with you, that you are not to be intimidated or coerced.

WIAWSNB

Forgot to ask, CTLP - do you have Legal Protection included in your contents insurance? If 'yes', call them up for confirmation of what I've said. This won't cost you anything - it's what it's for.

If 'no', then for pity's sakes add it.

TheGreenFrog

Damage to property caused by a leak from a pipe or fitting for which you are responsible will almost certainly result in you being liable for that damage. 

From your description it sounds as though the leak and damage was caused by plumbing for which you are responsible. So you are almost certainly liable. 

Your next step should be to notify your insurer; you should be covered under the Public Liability section of your insurance.  Your insurers will hopefully accept that you are covered and you can refer your neighbour to them!  You will have to pay any excess on your policy.

outtatune

Lots of absolute tosh being talked on this thread.

Unless you were negligent (e.g. you knew there was a leak and allowed it to continue without getting it fixed in a reasonable amount of time) then you are not liable for the damage to the flat below.
https://fraserbond.com/blog/article/understanding-liability-who-is-responsible-for-a-water-leak-from-an-upstairs-flat-in-the-uk-b7111

You are of course responsible for fixing the leak, but not responsible for the damage to other flats.

That is what their insurance is for. If they don't like paying the excess then they should have taken out a different policy.